Everywhere I look the downturn is because of “outsourcing”, “India taking our jobs!!”, “cheap overseas labor” and never, never ever porky’s fault. It’s the dirty immigrant labor, not the guys who talk about having “properties”. I’ve always seen this shit floating around in white collar jobs as long as I’ve been working but it’s been really amped up the last few weeks. I am not surprised that people are just this racist on their own but at least some of it feels very manufactured.
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I love how anti-immigration sentiment has become openly celebrated in all circles especially lib as soon as South Asians are involved. 60k H1B visas disbursed a year and all it took was shithead Vivek invoking the spectre of immigration from the Indian subcontinent and now even people who were rightfully pro-undocumented immigrants want all desis deported.
Nothing brings the west together like Indian hate, that’s amazing.
I don’t understand why H1bs even exist
Why don’t they just outsource literally every IT/programming job to the 3rd world? And pay every worker like a $20k salary. Cheap as fuck and way more effective
Like how the FUCK is it reasonable to bring in H1bs who get paid ~80% of a US worker, when you can literally outsource the entire job to Bangladesh and get the same product but for ~20% of a US worker (or even less)
Management finds it more fun to breath down their necks literally in person instead of figuratively over zoom.
Wouldn’t surprise me when porky prefers to waste money on office space in prime real eastate areas like NYC or Palo Alto when they could just let people WFH.
I think anti-WFH is a conspiracy to help keep Westoid power artificially inflated
if you let everyone WFH it suddenly makes zero sense to employ ANY WESTOID because you can just replace every job with WFHers from Philippines, Cambodia, India, etc
every service would be outsourced, and every manufacturing job was already outsourced. there just literally wouldn’t be a westoid economy anymore (like even less of one than there is now)
in addition to that, all the industries that depend on the charade of forcing people into the office would basically stop existing: fast food, restaurants, automakers, landlords, etc. The economy would consist solely of food healthcare and other resource extractions (mining, timber) and even those are largely done by immigrants who are physically here
This is anecdotal but I imagine it’s indicative of a larger trend, but I have friends who work for WFH-only tech firms that are doing exactly this, they’ve realised that they can pay Latin American software folks like a third of US salaries and who perform the same job just as well. The time zone is the same, and many are fluent in English. Only possible because they’re a WFH-only company though.
Yup, IBM contracts a lot of people from Costa Rica and good for them, but they are still overworked quite a bit. And their white manager berates them in front of their clients.
It could be helpful for a company to hire H1bs if it employs a combination of domestic and foreign workers. Having worked for a tech company that hires some remote teams in India for some projects, the large timezone gap makes collaboration difficult. Any meeting involving both US and Indian employees required the Indian workers to need to be available really late and US workers to be available really early (like 3 or 4 AM early), making everyone unhappy. It’s a much harder timezone difference to manage than, say, the difference between US Eastern and Pacific times.
Its easier to isolate and pressure workers if they come to america and not live in their home country.
i’m just baffled at how fucking blind these stupid fucking people are. okay, let’s say it’s true and that “immigrants are all coming here and ‘taking’ all the jobs”. WHO GAVE THEM THE JOBS? WHO SENT THE JOBS TO MEXICO AND BANGLADESH? how fucking blind are they? it makes no sense. how much fucking tv do you have to watch to be this easily fooled? holy fucking shit. is their brain literally just a puddle of KFC grease with bits of racism floating around in it?
The reason big corpos love H1B is because the employees have no workers rights and can’t really quit, because they will be deported in a few months after their H1B ends. Those employees are far more vulnerable. This is why big tech loves it so much. The dependency makes them fully reliant on doing all the corpo stuff like unpaid overtime.
Nearly half of my workplace is on H1B and it is consistently used as a tool to delay and prevent salary increases and promotion. Some people have worked for us for years at the same rate merely because they are on a work visa.
We need a MF union.
Dont forget about pearl-clutching about indian male sexual predators and its supposedly exceptional misogynistic culture.
What I love is how suddenly everyone has become an expert on the caste system and more westerners talk about caste than the average indian born in the west or even India
Motherfuckers who literally only see skin color, can’t even force the capitalist boot off their neck somehow recognize class and how it intersects with racism and colorism, just so they can justify racism towards Indians.
Who is pushing/paying for the astroturfing? Democrats to try to split the republicans?
It feels like Silicon Valley capital to me, but they benefit from these visas and would not benefit from deporting/cancelling them
People need to look at the number of CS graduates over the past 10 years. There’s always the lingering question “why isn’t there anyone over 50 in this industry?” It’s not because of ageism (though maybe there is some truth to that) it’s because there are way way way fewer people over 50 who can code. We went out and told everyone they need to learn to code and a lot of them did just that.
Anyway my point is that well first of all outsourcing doesn’t even have anything to do with H1B but there are a confluence of things contributing to the issue of people getting jobs in the tech industry right now and pretending immigration is the one issue is reductive and will lead to disappointment. Congratulations you kicked out all the H1Bs now it takes you 14 months instead of 16 months to find a new job. Problem solved.
It’s hard to see how adding 600k workers to the job pool doesn’t make it less competitive, with higher American unemployment and lower wages being the inevitable result. Companies like to make jobs less appealing to American workers (or just fire them en mass) so that they can claim they can’t fill positions and higher H1Bs, which they can pay far less and take advantage of the extreme leverage they have since it is much much harder for H1Bs to change jobs and if they lose their job they are forced to uproot everything and leave the country.
What’s really interesting is that H1Bs fail on both sides of the immigration issue. They fit the anti-immigration “took our jobs” almost by definition, and they are a temporary visa that does not lead to permanent residency, so they don’t even create full citizens with an investment in the country! It’s complicated and I personally have a lot of conflicting feelings about them, but they really do appear to encourage replacing American workers with cheaper and easily abusable foreign workers in the name of corporate “progress” and profits.
Congratulations you kicked out all the H1Bs now it takes you 14 months instead of 16 months to find a new job.
If this were true, it’d be a strong argument against H1Bs. It would show a direct correlation between H1Bs and unemployment and mean that H1Bs are being abused to fill positions with cheap labor that can be easily filled with domestic labor, and Americans are facing higher unemployment as a result.
As you said, there is a confluence of things contributing to the issue of people getting jobs in the tech industry right now. That means that real solutions and progress do not look like 16 -> 0 months. They look like 16 -> 15.5 months. No one action is going to completely solve unemployment and wealth inequality. A 12.5% reduction on job lapse duration from a single change would be absolutely massive.
If we only did things that completely fix issues in one fell swoop, we’d never do anything.
What’s really interesting is that H1Bs fail on both sides of the immigration issue. They fit the anti-immigration “took our jobs” almost by definition, and they are a temporary visa that does not lead to permanent residency, so they don’t even create full citizens with an investment in the country! It’s complicated and I personally have a lot of conflicting feelings about them, but they really do appear to encourage replacing American workers with cheaper and easily abusable foreign workers in the name of corporate “progress” and profits.
This is a discussion to be had about the nature of H1B status, but the current arguments over it are not that. People are complaining about immigrants and not the exploitative nature of the H1B visa. If that’s being discussed at all it’s just concern trolling.
If we only did things that completely fix issues in one fell swoop, we’d never do anything
Well the only thing we seem interested in fixing is the immigration part of it, which as I said will not fix the problem.
I’ll go ahead and disagree with the comment you’re replying to then, ending H1B visas wouldn’t reduce unemployment at all, it would push the companies that are exploiting migrant labor to just move overseas entirely. Why bring the cheap labor to the office when you can just put the office where the cheap labor is?
Labor is already significantly cheaper overseas than via H1B visas. There are many influences on business location besides employment costs. For example, Disney is a high-profile abuser of the H1B system, and I hopefully don’t need to explain why Disney might want to remain in the US, even if it means paying workers a little more.
It’s true that there’s other factors, but the scales are currently in a precarious equilibrium. Taking away one of the few remaining things that gives a marginal benefit to companies to keep operating in the US after 1970s globalization (read: rise of finance imperialism) is a more significant force in the direction of getting companies to set up shop abroad entirely, rather than replace cheap labor with expensive labor.
I personally haven’t seen people blaming the H1B workers in any circles I frequent. It’s mostly that H1Bs are generally bad for both the American and Immigrat workers, but great for corporations that get the screw both of them over.
I personally haven’t seen people blaming the H1B workers in any circles I frequent.
This is either written in bad faith or almost willful ignorance, I’m sorry.
You haven’t seen people blame South Asian immigrants? In ANY circle?
They’re hanging out in third world Maoist circles that just shoot any krakkkers on sight then.
Lol, I’m genuinely confused by this. I have conflicting feelings on H1Bs and agree with the OP that it’s the oligarchs’ faults, but that doesn’t automatically make them good or bad. The oligarchs like H1Bs because it lets them exploit the working class more effectively.
Also, and this is the most confusing part, are you implying that hating the KKK is a bad thing? Or is that supposed to be more nuanced, like “killing the KKK on sight is bad, they deserve a fair trial and punishment”? Either way, kinda bad taste tbh. There are plenty of other non-universally-agreed-upon evil things you could have used instead. It’s just bad rhetoric.
The three K’s are not directly referencing the Klan, it’s a reference to “Maoist Standard English” and a joke.
Funkystuff is joking the reason you have not experienced the racism described above is because you have cloistered yourself with only the ideologically pure.
Sorry, didn’t mean to be overly critical of what you’ve been saying. I disagree but you’ve been fair and I think you’re arguing in good faith.
Also, and this is the most confusing part, are you implying that hating the KKK is a bad thing?
No lol I’m saying that all the white people I see online are being super racist towards immigrants on this particular issue, so I invoked the image of a group that doesn’t let white people in. “kkkrakers” is Maoist Standard English for white people.
Ha, ok that makes more sense. I was like “this guy is saying reasonable stuff in other comments and now they’re subtly pro-kkk?” Didn’t add up 😂
No, not any circles. I said the circles I frequent, which tend to be more progressive towards immigration. I’m sure someone blames the immigrants themselves, but it’s not a widespread/both-aisles belief like the post insinuates.
I’ve seen understanding and sympathy for the immigrants trying to better their lives and being given the ugly end of capitalism. Working for less pay than your peers and being under constant thread of deportation is no way to live. And if, as a country, we’re so desperate for workers that we’re bringing in people from overseas, we better be giving them a path to permanent residence since they’re obviously beneficial to have around and they should have some skin in the game and the chance to be treated as equals rather than expendable cost-savers.
I’m not American, what’s this thing?
An H-1B visa is a kind of temporary work visa employers can apply for, it is for “specialized” immigrant workers. Generally math/engineering type stuff.
Chuds hate it because racism and “they took our jerbs,” when it should be opposed because it crates a category of laborer that are even more precariously under the thumb of their employer (their immigration status is essentially determined by their employer’s ability to extract further surplus from them.)
The H-1B visa status expires at the end of the employment period, and there is no grace period to remain in the U.S. beyond that date.
it is for “specialized” immigrant workers
but like 99% of H1B1 applications are for entry level jobs in my industry lmao
Well, that’s the language they use. Aside from that, entry level jobs can also be specialized. Here Pharmacy Technicians are entry level jobs, requiring no prior education and seen as the beginning of the Pharmacist’s career path (in conjunction with pharmacology school) however you would say they are specialized when compared to other kinds of store clerks.
They are largely just trying to draw a distinction between the coders and engineers they want to hire from migrant agricultural workers etc. they don’t want.
Ah. That clears it uo nice. It’s amazing that chuds and leftists can both hate the same thing for different reasons but the neolibs will for sure make it happen anyway
H1B visas are just work visas for “highly skilled labour” to immigrate to the United States. There’s a cap of ~65k issued per year, and it’s usually used by large tech conglomerates and other large companies to hire foreign labour and bring them to the United States. A lot of these H1B visa immigrants are South Asian because India has the most IT specialists in the world and many of them speak good English. There’s like a right wing civil war going on right now where Elon and co say they need H1Bs because native born Americans don’t work as hard as immigrants (which in my experience is true, immigrants always work harder, highly paid or not, since immigration is already self selecting and they went through a lot of work to immigrate and are primarily motivated by money hence the economic migration) and the white supremacist MAGA guys saying H1Bs are contributing to the Great Replacement or whatever.
Oh yeah, H1B visa recipients in my experience tend to be extraordinarily hard working. I know a few and literally they work 7 days a week, at least 12 hours a day (many times, 16).
Yeah it’s often because the H1B is a particularly precarious visa as it’s tied to your employer, so if they don’t do a good job and get fired or laid off or whatever they also then get deported. It’s not exactly “slave labour” since like they’re earning good money and can leave whenever etc etc but it’s certainly exploitative with an added reward of deportation for not doing 150% of your job.
I mean gilded shackles are still shackles.
Yeah that makes a lot of sense
Its brain-draining countries and then lording over those educated immigrants and throwing them back to their countries, when they are no longer useful. Its a disgusting and amoral system.
Why don’t these WOKE deepstate ELITE clique of PEDOPHILE’s give us NATIVE AMERICAN god-LOVING American PATRIOTS the H1B’s? The GREAT replacement, that’s why.
