Good job to all of the fucks who stayed home because of Gaza, thinking that not voting and letting the GOP rise to power would actually help the situation.
Yeah, because Netanyahu’s extreme right-wing policy was a problem with the US’s left-wing party, right?
“Good job to all the fucks who repeated genocide wasn’t that big of a deal lmao.”
“You lost. You should really shut the fuck up.”
I don’t think anyone was saying that “genocide wasn’t that big of a deal.” What I repeatedly heard was people rightfully pointing out that the Gaza genocide would be much worse under a Trump presidency. Only bad-faith actors were twisting their words and pretending that that was condoning genocide. You fell for the propaganda… or you’re one of the ones spreading it.
Less important than the amount of racism and paranoia of these last few days lmao
ars of being more independent of Americas tit, its more than likely the US that will find itself less relevant globally.
Even before this, there was already rumblings, not just in China, but elsewhere, about ditching the american dollar standard and returning to the gold standard. That’s just going to gain momentum as soon as Trump starts trying to wave his mushroom around.
I doubt Gaza was the deciding factor for 20 million people, but I could be wrong. Especially since anyone that aware of the whole would see trump would worsen the situation not improve it. I’m curious why they did stay home.
I also guess Americans don’t want a woman president and they do want a hard crackdown on migrants. Especially Latinos, who apparently overwhelmingly came out for trump.
It was a multitude of reasons, Twitter being in the hands of Elon (who pushed the hashtags #genocidejoe and #holocaustharris, but I wouldn’t be surprized if he also misinformed people about the election dates), other social media stopped enforcing their community guidelines to be “unbiased”, media was way harder on Kamala than on Trump (including the downplaying of the mental decay and insanity of Trump), the whole “let’s try to appeal to moderate conservatives” thing, etc.
The entire capital class rallied around trump. Bezos and Musk… media is owned by them, so the bias against Harris, asking things of her they did not ask from Trump… sanewashing Trumps ramblings.
Your elections where “stolen”… by the billionaires… through totally legit means.
I also guess Americans don’t want a woman president and they do want a hard crackdown on migrants. Especially Latinos, who apparently overwhelmingly came out for trump.
Latinos voting for hard crackdowns on immigrants is the biggest “fuck you, I’ve got mine” energy I’ve ever seen.
By far, the overwhelming Biden derangement syndrome factor was “transgenders exist and are in my news feed”. That healthcare is available to prisoners and immigrants, means that they are all receiving gender reassignment surgeries. This is democrats fault.
General education in the US is underfunded on purpose. It’s how the right have won on every issue that counts. Distracted, lazy, frightened and greedy. These are the levers the media pull to get whatever the billionaires want to happen. They tried it with Smedley Butler way back when and learned their lesson. Have the dumbass voter just do what they want with outrage. It doesn’t matter who’s president or who’s in Congress. It matters what’s on the news and who they can pay to put it there. The rest falls into place.
The Democrats also need better spokespersons. They might have better policy, but the infrastructure bill, chips act and lower drug prices will kick in during Trumps reighn.
Probably why they need populist messengers. Fighting sprach with more sprach does not work if you are trying to have a nuanced conversation with a guy using a bullhorn.
Sure, I think you misunderstand me though. There’s a century of Republicans good for economy and war, Democrats good for civil liberties and inclusion. There isn’t any populist messaging available to Democrats that the Billionaire donors will allow to be printed or platformed. Look at Bernie Sanders for an example of that.
It wasn’t deciding factor at all. People get far too internet poisoned and fail to realize how the median voter is actually motivated in this country. Foreign policy is nearly irrelevant to most voters.
If there is any validity to the idea that Harris’ position on gaza tanked the campaign it’s in the motivated active base lost interest in giving their time, sweat, and energy to putting boots on the ground for someone that has made every promise to continue bombing children.
It was, as it always is, and as Clinton said over 30 years ago, “the economy, stupid”.
People who do not pay attention to politics vote like someone pressing random buttons on an elevator. They push the up button, no elevator comes, then they push the down button, no elevator comes, and all they know to do is to keep pushing buttons randomly hoping an elevator comes one way or another. And no elevator ever comes.
Urgh, even now before the votes are all in (this will take weeks to finalize) this election was the second biggest turnout since 1932. I hate living in this “post truth” world where everyone just goes off of feelings and emotions. People turned up, for trump.
What feelings and emotions? Trump got 72.6 million votes so far this year. He got 74.2 in 2020. That’s 1.5 million voters right there.
Biden got 81.2 million votes. Harris got 68 million votes. That’s 13 million votes difference.
And most elections get in the 60% ±5 range voter turnout.
So…yeah… 1/3 of the population doesn’t bother to vote.
Yes, 1/3 does not vote. In any election (hell what do local elections hit? 30%) My point is it does not help just pulling the 2020 numbers since those are literally the record numbers of all time. This election was right on the money for turnout, not low, not really super high.
Blaming voter turnout would require some evidence that voters did not turn out. And in this case Trump won the popular vote, so 2016s electoral college crap is not in play. This election could be cheated (how would I know at this point one way or the other) but my money is on the Democratic party just face planted harder then in 2016.
The original comment to which you replied said “Millions of people stayed home. I really doubt Gaza was the reason for all of them.”
We’ve agreed that millions of people did stay at home. So I don’t see the problem. Yes, they often stay at home. That’s the problem. When it’s two of more of the same it’s more understandable. But both sides have been pretty clear about what’s at stake. And they still stayed home. That’s it. And you’ve agreed that 1/3 of the people didn’t vote.
Not sure how the op was untruthful or misleading or based in any way “off of feelings and emotions”.
Millions of people chose to allow this to happen. And yeah, Gaza wasn’t the reason.
Yeah the reason was that the public is tired, but no more then normal. Blaming this on voter turnout due to a single issue is… silly. I agree with the first statement but not the idea that this election had low turnout, this was a referendum on the status quo. The result was clear (not one that will be good) and this post truth finger pointing just pisses me off, the race was not even close. Do you think if another 15 million people got off the couch they would have not voted for Trump? That is just about as arrogant as you can get.
My argument is what did the democrats have to lose for supporting Gaza/Palestinians? It’s obvious not running a fully left facing candidate and campaign was a mistake.
We are mad at the wrong people. The reality of the situation is that the democrats can’t win without the far left of the party. So why won’t we extend an olive branch? If we get a next time, what are we going to do differently?! This is the reality. Either we wake up to that or keep losing. Pick one.
Fuck the people who didnt vote based on gaza. They are even dumber than Maga hats. They help the candidate that is even worse for gaza win . No one should offer these people any branches. Fuck them. Treat them like the idiots they are just like we do with MAGA.
You lost. Maybe you should shut up and start having a tiny bit of self-reflection lmao they were right all along. You libs were totally ready to sacrifice foreigners for your own comfort. Now you get neither. Good job.
Why are you such a hateful person? How did you end up at this point in life? It seems that you have completely lost all hope and are just lashing out and desperately trying to make everyone as miserable as you.
Let me give you a friendly tip, that kind of behavior is only going to make you even more miserable in the long run. At some point, you will have to move beyond hatred and try to rediscover your empathy and humanity, if you ever want to get yourself out of this pit of despair that you continue to dig. I’m rooting for you buddy.
I have no empathy for genosiders. Last week, you people were all going like “genocide is not that big of a deal coz it’s unavoidable anyway coz both side support it”. Soo, well, get a taste of your own medecine.
I didnt participate. I am not american. No democrat sacrificed foreigners lmao. Trump is the one who wants to harm them. I really hope you qre american and will realize how project 2025 will fuck you
Oh god you are dumb. The weapon deliveries are of course wrong but calling them sacrificing foreigners is just idiotic. You realize Trump is even more supportive of israel right? Trump praised Netanyahu. Israel named a settlement after Trump.
Instead of using the little bit of brain you have to realize the democrats are the only chance palestinians have to survive you chose to sacrifice the entire Planet to give power to a fascist who wants Israel to exzerminate all palestinians.
Yeah using taxpayer fund to give subsidies to the weapon industry, knowing full well they were going to be used for extermination, is worst than just talking about it in my book.
If they didn’t want people to vote for trump they should have lead a different policy lmao
Okay but if we are guaranteed to lose without them, what’s the harm in giving them what they want? Losing while taking the morally right position is never wrong. We spit in the Arab/Muslim/Palestinians/far left Americans faces and they stayed home on election day. So what’s the harm in at least giving into their demands? The Republicans do that for their base and are winning even when they lose elections. So I’m arguing a change in tactics because we are literally taking the insanity route if we don’t.
So what’s the harm in at least giving into their demands?
If people refused to vote because both candidates support Israel, then whose to say that suggesting to withdraw that support wont make an equal or greater number of people to then vote for the candidate who does?
Not any more there isn’t. And soon, in the next few years, we’ll see a systematic elimination of any remaining opposition, by means of oppression, suppression, and even more violent means.
They dont have the morally high ground. They chose to help a fascist get to power.
These idiots should never get what they want since they have shown to be completely brain dead.
But to get to your point better. Giving them what they want means losing all pro israel people to Trump. Staiying between both positions gets people from both sides.
However you cannot give the pro palestine people in america what they want since many want a genocide against israel instead which is just as inacceptable as the status quo.
No you chose to help a fascist get in power by voting for losers. Also considering both your candidates commited conspiracy to commit genocide, I would really shut up about moral high ground lmao
Especially when you are both-siding a massacre. You deserve trump lmao I hope they come for you
I am not american you idiot. They arent my candidated. Fact is that trump is much worse for Palestine. And non voters will realize this. I wont shed a tear for those americans crying because Trump turned Gaza into a mall. I will feel sad for the palestinians suffering from the actions of their idiot relatives in the US though
You are from an american vassal and mindlessly repeat their propaganda. I wanna bet you are british / commonwealth / german / euro.
Also fuck you for blaming genocide on non-voters. Harris sent weapons to commit genocide until now. You are blaming the victim and it’s a disgusting behavior.
Looking at your history, it’s clear you know a lot about disgusting behavior. You seem like an expert on it.
Ps this is 100% the fault of those who didn’t vote. Kind of pathetic to argue otherwise. they could’ve voted to reduce harm but they’d rather watch trump accelerate the genocide, so this is fully on them/you.
Uhhhh no… Just no… Most Palestinian Americans don’t want genicide to go the other way… And the people living in Palestinian don’t have the capability to even have running water, electricity, airforce or navy let alone the capability to do a genicide so just no. Pro Isreal / pro genicide people were going to vote for Trump regardless… How about a no genicide party? Is that too much to ask?
Difference between you and rational people is we are trying to get the best and not just the least worst people. I voted blue but it’s obvious change is needed.
Genocide is exactly what Hamas would do if they did have the capacity. Israel could wipe out every single one of them if they wanted to. They haven’t. Wiping out jews is the stated goal of Hamas in the 1988 charter.
Israel could wipe out every single one of them if they wanted to. They haven’t.
When the genocides lie far in the past, denial is easier.
“It was self defense”
Genocide is exactly what Hamas would do if they did have the capacity.
The killing of civilians, especially able bodied males is rationalized in preemptive attack, as they are accused of plotting against the perpetrators. The perpetrator may exterminate witnesses and relatives of the victims.
I love that you lost to a felon and still engage in denialism, it’s like you guys are unable to learn anything.
Don’t get me wrong, Hamas are the worst of the “other” side but that’s why we would fight them as well if the roles were reversed. But I won’t want to achieve that goal by killing 40k innocent people. I’d be just as upset and angry. It’s asking for no genicide regardless of who’s the perpetrator or whos the victims?!
And also your argument is the equivalent to saying those being surprised by a stronger power can only fight back by conviction means? Or that the Palestinian people having negative views towards religious fundamentalist who are literally killing and starving their friends and family, forfeit their lives for said negative views? For example if you asked jews people in concentration camps during WWII if they had negative views towards German people, and taking their answer as a determining factor on if they live or die… Nazi Germany also called jews freedom fighters in occupied Poland terrorist. And some of those freedom fighters committed horrific crimes against German civilians… Was Nat Turner a freedom fighter or terrorist? Were native American raids on settlements built on their ancestors land righteous or terrorism?
Despite the high number of civilian casualties, Israel is actually doing a better job at it that the US has with their skirmishes in the middle east. It’s not like they’re not trying to minimize the civilian casualties, Hamas just makes it really hard by using their population as human shields.
Also, if you look at the videos of Israeli civilian hostages dragged thru the streets of Gaza after the october 7 invasion, there’s a good number of palestinian civilians cheering. Would the Israeli population be doing the same thing were IDF to drag raped Palestinian women thru the streets of Israel? I doubt it.
Hamas is a death cult. There’s no negotiating with them. The only solution is their complete destruction and showing the world that these views will not be tolerated. It’s the average muslim who suffers the most because of these religious extremists.
I feel bad for the Palestinians in Gaza of course. Not for their relatives in america who just helped put a fascist in power who will kill their relatives.
Anyone who didnt vote or voted for Stein is deserving of everything that will happen to them
I hope their family in Palestine will cut them off because they have signed their life away.
The family members elected someone who wants every last palestinian to die. Someone who wants to escalate the conflict even more. Instead of choosing a person who is open to be talked to.
Every non voter and Trump voter has the blood of palestinians on their hands
And what’s your solution to those with legitimate hangups? Sit behind a keyboard and call them idiots? There was no downside to being 100% anti genicide. There is no downside to be for universal health care. There’s no downside to making education 100% free. There’s no downside to fighting for income redistribution.
What’s your solution to these real fucking problems? Because the democrats never truly tried any of these or even advocated for them. It’s been this way since the new deal. A slow decay to Jim crow, women’s suffrage, and xenophobia. We need new tactics because what you and the Democrat leadership is saying and doing isn’t fucking working!
There is no solution. Idiots will stay idiots. They obviously dont give af about democracy or the lifes of anyone else but themselves.
As long as these idiots are alive they will keep handing the reigns to fascists who do exactly what the idiots punish the dems for.
All we can hope for is that american burns down quickly without too much damage to anyone else. So this time maybe something decent can be built on the remains.
However you cannot give the pro palestine people in america what they want since many want a genocide against israel instead
You are inventing straw men. No one seriously expects this of Harris, and there is a lot of room between ‘reverse genocide’ and what the Biden/Harris admin did.
If you give in to the “Gimme what I want or I want fascism” crowd they will keep asking for more. Many are already demanding Israel to be dissolved.
So fuck these people. I will not shed a tear for them when they cry because Trump flattened all of Gaza.
Foreign policy is so far from a motivating factor for this country, why can’t you just accept that the democrats are a failure of a party? They went further and further right looking for the ‘Liz Cheney vote’ and lost the popular vote because of it.
They don’t have the morally high ground. They chose to help a fascist get to power.
Kamala Harris, the Democratic Presidential Nominee, lost. Because of her poor campaign tactics, she allowed a fascist to get into power. Are you equally upset with her for not doing what it takes to stop fascism?
If not, why was the “right answer” for this election to support Israel when we know that she lost following that tactic, and not supporting Palestine?
Obviously I am upset with Harris and her campaign. Since she became the candidate I have been critiquing her.
The right answer is not allowing a fascist to be elected. Supporting Israel is what Trump did too and even worse than Harris. Any pro Palestine voter with a brain would see that Harris is better for them.
Now they deserve everything Trump will do to them.
Supporting Israel is what Trump did too and even worse than Harris.
So the key to beating fascism in your mind was to platform the same policies, but a little less? What do you actually think Harris should have done differently that would have helped her win the election? Because clearly, doing the same thing but slightly less bad didn’t work this time.
The key to defeat fascism is not voting for fascism. Nothing Harris could have done would have changed anything. American voters and non voters want fascism more than a female president.
I called it 4 mths ago. Putting her up was a mistake. They either needed to stay with Biden or better yet, have him not run again and pick a white man as candidate.
Even then it would have been hard with so many people choosing fascism and choosing not to prevent fascism.
Tbh, there’s a very dark part of me that makes me just want sit back, watch Gaza and the West Bank get fully reduced to rubble, and all the Palestinians getting put into woodchippers, and just smirk while saying “wow, good thing we dodged a Harris administration. Who knows what that would have meant for Palestine.”
Good job the democrats alienating their base by trending right. I get you but this was completely avoidable if the democrats were competent and not a big circlejerk for themselves. Bernie could have beat that spastic in 2016.
Gaza is a serious issue, the US is supporting a genocide. If you cant come out against that then why bother, there isnt much more important to a lot of people. I know Trump will be worse for the region, they do too but if you cant take a principled position that aligns with people you cant complain they didnt vote for you.
You can be rightfully mad at the party that’s failing to represent you correctly (I certainly am) and still make the pragmatic choice of not getting the guy who will make those issues worse elected.
We need to come together nationally and locally to attempt to affect change within the DNC more often than every 4 years, because it seems like every time we’re all reminded how incompetent they are, it’s too late for us to do anything about it for that election cycle.
Didnt everyone do that four years ago, in monumental numbers and there stood a president that provided the arms to blow children out of house and home and off the face of the planet.
Biden did a lot but he missed on some vital issues and that is the fault of the dems.
Yes, and now Trump will help provide significantly more arms than Harris would have, even if she kept providing the same amount as Biden. Surely I don’t have to tell you that that’s worse?
We need to mobilize to change the DNC and Democratic Party leadership in the time we have in between these decisions, not ignore it for 4 years and then throw away your vote in protest.
So the continued support of Israel was inevitable. The choice was between shipping food with the bombs or not. How would you go about changing the democratic party by voting them in, they did that four years ago and they just drifted further right.
Surely I dont need to point out that record numbers defested trump only to have israel propped up and the strictest border laws ever put to a vote by the democrats.
Here is how you change the democratic party, kick out the losers. I wanted her to win but now that she hasnt the party can only blame themselves.
DNC primaries are a joke. look at this last primary. oh wait we didn’t actually have a primary.
they intentionally waited until the “primary” was over so that Biden could get the incumbent automatic primary votes and then let him drop out so they could rush in Kamala without having a real primary.
i firmly believe if Democrats were not trying to game democracy this presidential cycle, DNC would have had a chance to beat Trump
they intentionally waited until the “primary” was over so that Biden could get the incumbent automatic primary votes and then let him drop out so they could rush in Kamala without having a real primary.
If that was the case, they would have done it sooner. Kamala stepping in was definitely an unplanned, and unprecedented, move. It’s a huge risk to drop the incumbent in favor of somebody else.
b) a couple weeks before the candidate was formally sworn in
If that was the case, they would have done it sooner
sooner and there may have been a real primary contest. too risky. they did it with just enough time to sort of “zerg rush” Kamala into the primary without giving anyone time to mount a meaningful attempt at the primary
and unprecedented, move. It’s a huge risk to drop the incumbent in favor of somebody else.
unprecedented, yes. it’s the first time in US history since we’ve been using the primary system that a candidate got the party nomination without a single vote being cast for them
risky, also yes. but they (I think correctly) determined that Biden was a lost cause.
so it was either a) go with the guy you know you’re gonna lose or b) go with someone you will probably lose with
In support of that viewpoint, if they were ready to vote but just wanted to vote for someone who touted their interests, they’d have been there for a third party candidate, but they just were no where to be found.
Would be interested to see why people sat it out. To the extent it was something utterly mundane like “couldn’t afford to take any time off work to get it done”.
If you didnt want to vote gor either candidate why bother with the hardship to vote third party, everyone and their dog knew it was a two horse race. It always has been, and that is by design.
It is disingenuous to say they would have showed up for third parties when it was the same as not voting essentially.
So you want me to reward holocaust Harris and genocide joe for not doing ANYTHING to stop it? No, I chose to teach them a lesson. Don’t blame us. Blame the dems for not doing enough and putting a shit candidate.
What lesson exactly? That if the ideal candidate isn’t run, a subset of liberals will pick the worse of two options?
All that does is teach the conservatives that if they can convince you that the democrat candidate fails you enough on a single issue, they effectively have your vote. Regardless of the conservative candidate’s stance on that issue.
You have made the choice to make the problem you care about profoundly worse because there wasn’t a way to make it completely better. Have fun watching that play out as you intended I guess.
The only lesson you taught them is that the general public wants more right-wing ideas. What you’ve done is teach trans, blacks, and other minorities a lesson, the lesson that they should be beaten and driven out of their country. You’ve taught that women should be submissive, treated like property, like they are in Saudi Arabia.
Good job. I hope you reflect on your “lesson” in the next four years, as your right to vote is systematical dismantled.
Gloating as the Palestinians receive news that help isn’t coming is something that someone who cares more about their own image than a genocide would do.
And where am I gloating exactly? I’m simply stating that you shouldn’t blame the voters but blame the dems for standing for genocide. Not like if harris was elected it would have been any better for the Palestinians.
Good job to all of the fucks who stayed home because of Gaza, thinking that not voting and letting the GOP rise to power would actually help the situation.
Yeah, because Netanyahu’s extreme right-wing policy was a problem with the US’s left-wing party, right?
Fucking chat bots convinced enough dipshits to stay home that our country was taken by fascists. Humanity is doomed.
Good job to all the fucks who repeated genocide wasn’t that big of a deal lmao.
You lost. You should really shut the fuck up.
I don’t think anyone was saying that “genocide wasn’t that big of a deal.” What I repeatedly heard was people rightfully pointing out that the Gaza genocide would be much worse under a Trump presidency. Only bad-faith actors were twisting their words and pretending that that was condoning genocide. You fell for the propaganda… or you’re one of the ones spreading it.
yoU GoT me ComRad I waS A russIAn TroLL All AlonG. I am CurrenTly In The LubjAnkA wiTh MedveDev wE’Re ShoviNg CavIar In ouR ButThoLe.
idiot
For posterity since it was so important:
Less important than the amount of racism and paranoia of these last few days lmao
Also again, considering you’re the looser, you might want to shut up and listen instead of blaming everybody else.
I’m the “looser?” Looser than what?
And, I didn’t mean to trigger you. There’s no need to flood my inbox with replies.
Presenting genocide as unavoidable is akin to incitement in my book. You might want to check your legal liabilities.
For posterity, since I wouldn’t want to forget to check my “legal liabilities.”
If you are from the united states he’s the federal law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1091
:)
Everybody lost this week. You just don’t realise it yet.
Well I’m not from the country that just elected a fascist
I doubt Gaza was the deciding factor for 20 million people, but I could be wrong. Especially since anyone that aware of the whole would see trump would worsen the situation not improve it. I’m curious why they did stay home.
I also guess Americans don’t want a woman president and they do want a hard crackdown on migrants. Especially Latinos, who apparently overwhelmingly came out for trump.
It was a multitude of reasons, Twitter being in the hands of Elon (who pushed the hashtags
#genocidejoeand#holocaustharris, but I wouldn’t be surprized if he also misinformed people about the election dates), other social media stopped enforcing their community guidelines to be “unbiased”, media was way harder on Kamala than on Trump (including the downplaying of the mental decay and insanity of Trump), the whole “let’s try to appeal to moderate conservatives” thing, etc.The entire capital class rallied around trump. Bezos and Musk… media is owned by them, so the bias against Harris, asking things of her they did not ask from Trump… sanewashing Trumps ramblings.
Your elections where “stolen”… by the billionaires… through totally legit means.
They’re only “legit” if the people are letting them to be.
Latinos voting for hard crackdowns on immigrants is the biggest “fuck you, I’ve got mine” energy I’ve ever seen.
And they will be so fucking shocked when ice comes for them.
Or their parents.
But they are one of the good ones! ™
Narrator: they weren’t.
By far, the overwhelming Biden derangement syndrome factor was “transgenders exist and are in my news feed”. That healthcare is available to prisoners and immigrants, means that they are all receiving gender reassignment surgeries. This is democrats fault.
The fact people can’t differentiate edge cases from the norm is a general education issue. But their pushback was anemic.
General education in the US is underfunded on purpose. It’s how the right have won on every issue that counts. Distracted, lazy, frightened and greedy. These are the levers the media pull to get whatever the billionaires want to happen. They tried it with Smedley Butler way back when and learned their lesson. Have the dumbass voter just do what they want with outrage. It doesn’t matter who’s president or who’s in Congress. It matters what’s on the news and who they can pay to put it there. The rest falls into place.
The Democrats also need better spokespersons. They might have better policy, but the infrastructure bill, chips act and lower drug prices will kick in during Trumps reighn.
Only 25% of students pass the civics literacy test
https://jackmillercenter.org/news/how-we-lost-our-civics-education-and-how-we-can-get-it-back
Americans don’t fucking understand policy. Doesn’t matter how you message it.
Probably why they need populist messengers. Fighting sprach with more sprach does not work if you are trying to have a nuanced conversation with a guy using a bullhorn.
Sure, I think you misunderstand me though. There’s a century of Republicans good for economy and war, Democrats good for civil liberties and inclusion. There isn’t any populist messaging available to Democrats that the Billionaire donors will allow to be printed or platformed. Look at Bernie Sanders for an example of that.
It wasn’t deciding factor at all. People get far too internet poisoned and fail to realize how the median voter is actually motivated in this country. Foreign policy is nearly irrelevant to most voters.
If there is any validity to the idea that Harris’ position on gaza tanked the campaign it’s in the motivated active base lost interest in giving their time, sweat, and energy to putting boots on the ground for someone that has made every promise to continue bombing children.
It was, as it always is, and as Clinton said over 30 years ago, “the economy, stupid”.
People who do not pay attention to politics vote like someone pressing random buttons on an elevator. They push the up button, no elevator comes, then they push the down button, no elevator comes, and all they know to do is to keep pushing buttons randomly hoping an elevator comes one way or another. And no elevator ever comes.
If it mattered: Fuck the Dems for doing a genocide that cost us the Republic.
If it didn’t matter: Fuck the Dems for doing a genocide that didn’t even matter in costing us the Republic.
Millions of people stayed home. I really doubt Gaza was the reason for all of them.
Urgh, even now before the votes are all in (this will take weeks to finalize) this election was the second biggest turnout since 1932. I hate living in this “post truth” world where everyone just goes off of feelings and emotions. People turned up, for trump.
What feelings and emotions? Trump got 72.6 million votes so far this year. He got 74.2 in 2020. That’s 1.5 million voters right there. Biden got 81.2 million votes. Harris got 68 million votes. That’s 13 million votes difference.
And most elections get in the 60% ±5 range voter turnout.
So…yeah… 1/3 of the population doesn’t bother to vote.
Yes, 1/3 does not vote. In any election (hell what do local elections hit? 30%) My point is it does not help just pulling the 2020 numbers since those are literally the record numbers of all time. This election was right on the money for turnout, not low, not really super high.
Blaming voter turnout would require some evidence that voters did not turn out. And in this case Trump won the popular vote, so 2016s electoral college crap is not in play. This election could be cheated (how would I know at this point one way or the other) but my money is on the Democratic party just face planted harder then in 2016.
The original comment to which you replied said “Millions of people stayed home. I really doubt Gaza was the reason for all of them.”
We’ve agreed that millions of people did stay at home. So I don’t see the problem. Yes, they often stay at home. That’s the problem. When it’s two of more of the same it’s more understandable. But both sides have been pretty clear about what’s at stake. And they still stayed home. That’s it. And you’ve agreed that 1/3 of the people didn’t vote.
Not sure how the op was untruthful or misleading or based in any way “off of feelings and emotions”.
Millions of people chose to allow this to happen. And yeah, Gaza wasn’t the reason.
Yeah the reason was that the public is tired, but no more then normal. Blaming this on voter turnout due to a single issue is… silly. I agree with the first statement but not the idea that this election had low turnout, this was a referendum on the status quo. The result was clear (not one that will be good) and this post truth finger pointing just pisses me off, the race was not even close. Do you think if another 15 million people got off the couch they would have not voted for Trump? That is just about as arrogant as you can get.
Do you know if they include disenfranchised voters in the possible voter category?
Afaik, everyone that’s a citizen and over the age of 18 is included. But I could be wrong.
My argument is what did the democrats have to lose for supporting Gaza/Palestinians? It’s obvious not running a fully left facing candidate and campaign was a mistake.
We are mad at the wrong people. The reality of the situation is that the democrats can’t win without the far left of the party. So why won’t we extend an olive branch? If we get a next time, what are we going to do differently?! This is the reality. Either we wake up to that or keep losing. Pick one.
Fuck the people who didnt vote based on gaza. They are even dumber than Maga hats. They help the candidate that is even worse for gaza win . No one should offer these people any branches. Fuck them. Treat them like the idiots they are just like we do with MAGA.
You lost. Maybe you should shut up and start having a tiny bit of self-reflection lmao they were right all along. You libs were totally ready to sacrifice foreigners for your own comfort. Now you get neither. Good job.
You’ve been saying that a lot to different people. Why is it so hard for you to hear a differing opinion?
Because your opinion just got a fascist elected lmao
Why are you such a hateful person? How did you end up at this point in life? It seems that you have completely lost all hope and are just lashing out and desperately trying to make everyone as miserable as you.
Let me give you a friendly tip, that kind of behavior is only going to make you even more miserable in the long run. At some point, you will have to move beyond hatred and try to rediscover your empathy and humanity, if you ever want to get yourself out of this pit of despair that you continue to dig. I’m rooting for you buddy.
When the war happened I went on a penpal website to talk to people in lebannon. They are getting firebombs.
Then I read this:
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/usa-israel-has-used-us-made-arms-gaza-violation-international-law-new-report
I have no empathy for genosiders. Last week, you people were all going like “genocide is not that big of a deal coz it’s unavoidable anyway coz both side support it”. Soo, well, get a taste of your own medecine.
Where are you from?
Far-west asia. Most people call it europe
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I didnt participate. I am not american. No democrat sacrificed foreigners lmao. Trump is the one who wants to harm them. I really hope you qre american and will realize how project 2025 will fuck you
Trump was not the one sending weapons to lebannon.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/usa-israel-has-used-us-made-arms-gaza-violation-international-law-new-report
This was from last april. Remind me, who was in power then?
Oh god you are dumb. The weapon deliveries are of course wrong but calling them sacrificing foreigners is just idiotic. You realize Trump is even more supportive of israel right? Trump praised Netanyahu. Israel named a settlement after Trump.
Instead of using the little bit of brain you have to realize the democrats are the only chance palestinians have to survive you chose to sacrifice the entire Planet to give power to a fascist who wants Israel to exzerminate all palestinians.
Yeah using taxpayer fund to give subsidies to the weapon industry, knowing full well they were going to be used for extermination, is worst than just talking about it in my book.
If they didn’t want people to vote for trump they should have lead a different policy lmao
The people had the vote between fascism or no fascism and you voted for neither meaning you support fascism. So you deserve all that is coming.
Okay but if we are guaranteed to lose without them, what’s the harm in giving them what they want? Losing while taking the morally right position is never wrong. We spit in the Arab/Muslim/Palestinians/far left Americans faces and they stayed home on election day. So what’s the harm in at least giving into their demands? The Republicans do that for their base and are winning even when they lose elections. So I’m arguing a change in tactics because we are literally taking the insanity route if we don’t.
If people refused to vote because both candidates support Israel, then whose to say that suggesting to withdraw that support wont make an equal or greater number of people to then vote for the candidate who does?
Are we. Is that what the demos say? Don’t think black men and Latinos care about Gaza. The far left is so finicky and small
There is no left and esp. no far left in america.
Not any more there isn’t. And soon, in the next few years, we’ll see a systematic elimination of any remaining opposition, by means of oppression, suppression, and even more violent means.
So like in the 30ies? And the 50ies? And the 60ies? Also the 70ies?
Ah yes that will be a huge change lmao
There never was a left in america. What you call left os conservative in every country with a real political spectrum
There was at some point. It’s how we got the first of may.
A good number of left-wing politicans in my country would be considered right-wing in the USA.
And you think that matters when there isn’t even going to be a fucking center-right any more?
They dont have the morally high ground. They chose to help a fascist get to power. These idiots should never get what they want since they have shown to be completely brain dead. But to get to your point better. Giving them what they want means losing all pro israel people to Trump. Staiying between both positions gets people from both sides. However you cannot give the pro palestine people in america what they want since many want a genocide against israel instead which is just as inacceptable as the status quo.
No you chose to help a fascist get in power by voting for losers. Also considering both your candidates commited conspiracy to commit genocide, I would really shut up about moral high ground lmao
Especially when you are both-siding a massacre. You deserve trump lmao I hope they come for you
I am not american you idiot. They arent my candidated. Fact is that trump is much worse for Palestine. And non voters will realize this. I wont shed a tear for those americans crying because Trump turned Gaza into a mall. I will feel sad for the palestinians suffering from the actions of their idiot relatives in the US though
You are from an american vassal and mindlessly repeat their propaganda. I wanna bet you are british / commonwealth / german / euro.
Also fuck you for blaming genocide on non-voters. Harris sent weapons to commit genocide until now. You are blaming the victim and it’s a disgusting behavior.
Looking at your history, it’s clear you know a lot about disgusting behavior. You seem like an expert on it.
Ps this is 100% the fault of those who didn’t vote. Kind of pathetic to argue otherwise. they could’ve voted to reduce harm but they’d rather watch trump accelerate the genocide, so this is fully on them/you.
Uhhhh no… Just no… Most Palestinian Americans don’t want genicide to go the other way… And the people living in Palestinian don’t have the capability to even have running water, electricity, airforce or navy let alone the capability to do a genicide so just no. Pro Isreal / pro genicide people were going to vote for Trump regardless… How about a no genicide party? Is that too much to ask?
Difference between you and rational people is we are trying to get the best and not just the least worst people. I voted blue but it’s obvious change is needed.
Genocide is exactly what Hamas would do if they did have the capacity. Israel could wipe out every single one of them if they wanted to. They haven’t. Wiping out jews is the stated goal of Hamas in the 1988 charter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_denial
“Hardly anybody died”
When the genocides lie far in the past, denial is easier.
“It was self defense”
The killing of civilians, especially able bodied males is rationalized in preemptive attack, as they are accused of plotting against the perpetrators. The perpetrator may exterminate witnesses and relatives of the victims.
I love that you lost to a felon and still engage in denialism, it’s like you guys are unable to learn anything.
I’m not American
Don’t get me wrong, Hamas are the worst of the “other” side but that’s why we would fight them as well if the roles were reversed. But I won’t want to achieve that goal by killing 40k innocent people. I’d be just as upset and angry. It’s asking for no genicide regardless of who’s the perpetrator or whos the victims?!
And also your argument is the equivalent to saying those being surprised by a stronger power can only fight back by conviction means? Or that the Palestinian people having negative views towards religious fundamentalist who are literally killing and starving their friends and family, forfeit their lives for said negative views? For example if you asked jews people in concentration camps during WWII if they had negative views towards German people, and taking their answer as a determining factor on if they live or die… Nazi Germany also called jews freedom fighters in occupied Poland terrorist. And some of those freedom fighters committed horrific crimes against German civilians… Was Nat Turner a freedom fighter or terrorist? Were native American raids on settlements built on their ancestors land righteous or terrorism?
Hamas wasn’t created in a vaccum.
Despite the high number of civilian casualties, Israel is actually doing a better job at it that the US has with their skirmishes in the middle east. It’s not like they’re not trying to minimize the civilian casualties, Hamas just makes it really hard by using their population as human shields.
Also, if you look at the videos of Israeli civilian hostages dragged thru the streets of Gaza after the october 7 invasion, there’s a good number of palestinian civilians cheering. Would the Israeli population be doing the same thing were IDF to drag raped Palestinian women thru the streets of Israel? I doubt it.
Hamas is a death cult. There’s no negotiating with them. The only solution is their complete destruction and showing the world that these views will not be tolerated. It’s the average muslim who suffers the most because of these religious extremists.
I feel bad for the Palestinians in Gaza of course. Not for their relatives in america who just helped put a fascist in power who will kill their relatives.
Anyone who didnt vote or voted for Stein is deserving of everything that will happen to them I hope their family in Palestine will cut them off because they have signed their life away.
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The family members elected someone who wants every last palestinian to die. Someone who wants to escalate the conflict even more. Instead of choosing a person who is open to be talked to.
Every non voter and Trump voter has the blood of palestinians on their hands
Maybe you shouldn’t have voted for a loser.
Luckily I am not american. So I didnt vote. However voting for a fascist will screw you as well as any other american
And what’s your solution to those with legitimate hangups? Sit behind a keyboard and call them idiots? There was no downside to being 100% anti genicide. There is no downside to be for universal health care. There’s no downside to making education 100% free. There’s no downside to fighting for income redistribution.
What’s your solution to these real fucking problems? Because the democrats never truly tried any of these or even advocated for them. It’s been this way since the new deal. A slow decay to Jim crow, women’s suffrage, and xenophobia. We need new tactics because what you and the Democrat leadership is saying and doing isn’t fucking working!
There is no solution. Idiots will stay idiots. They obviously dont give af about democracy or the lifes of anyone else but themselves.
As long as these idiots are alive they will keep handing the reigns to fascists who do exactly what the idiots punish the dems for.
All we can hope for is that american burns down quickly without too much damage to anyone else. So this time maybe something decent can be built on the remains.
You are inventing straw men. No one seriously expects this of Harris, and there is a lot of room between ‘reverse genocide’ and what the Biden/Harris admin did.
If you give in to the “Gimme what I want or I want fascism” crowd they will keep asking for more. Many are already demanding Israel to be dissolved. So fuck these people. I will not shed a tear for them when they cry because Trump flattened all of Gaza.
That’s america.
Fascism has a clear definition. Trump fullfills it. Are you one of these idiots who claimed Trump doesnt want to implement project 2025?
Whooeee, scratch a lib eh?
Foreign policy is so far from a motivating factor for this country, why can’t you just accept that the democrats are a failure of a party? They went further and further right looking for the ‘Liz Cheney vote’ and lost the popular vote because of it.
I’m not a lib. I am left.
The dems made stupid shit. I said so. It doesnt remove the blame of the fascists voting for Trump and the fascist enablers not voting to prevent Trump
Kamala Harris, the Democratic Presidential Nominee, lost. Because of her poor campaign tactics, she allowed a fascist to get into power. Are you equally upset with her for not doing what it takes to stop fascism?
If not, why was the “right answer” for this election to support Israel when we know that she lost following that tactic, and not supporting Palestine?
Obviously I am upset with Harris and her campaign. Since she became the candidate I have been critiquing her.
The right answer is not allowing a fascist to be elected. Supporting Israel is what Trump did too and even worse than Harris. Any pro Palestine voter with a brain would see that Harris is better for them.
Now they deserve everything Trump will do to them.
So the key to beating fascism in your mind was to platform the same policies, but a little less? What do you actually think Harris should have done differently that would have helped her win the election? Because clearly, doing the same thing but slightly less bad didn’t work this time.
The key to defeat fascism is not voting for fascism. Nothing Harris could have done would have changed anything. American voters and non voters want fascism more than a female president.
I called it 4 mths ago. Putting her up was a mistake. They either needed to stay with Biden or better yet, have him not run again and pick a white man as candidate.
Even then it would have been hard with so many people choosing fascism and choosing not to prevent fascism.
I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive. Why can’t we be mad the the DNC for shit strategy and be mad at the folks who stayed home?
Because we’re only allowed to hold one idea in the brain at a time.
For a lot of people, “allowed” can be replaced with “able”.
Tbh, there’s a very dark part of me that makes me just want sit back, watch Gaza and the West Bank get fully reduced to rubble, and all the Palestinians getting put into woodchippers, and just smirk while saying “wow, good thing we dodged a Harris administration. Who knows what that would have meant for Palestine.”
Lmao and you’re surprised nobody voted for y’all. You never cared about anything but your own ass.
We know libs have been saying that for nearly a year.
Oh look, “scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds” right here!
Good job the democrats alienating their base by trending right. I get you but this was completely avoidable if the democrats were competent and not a big circlejerk for themselves. Bernie could have beat that spastic in 2016.
Gaza is a serious issue, the US is supporting a genocide. If you cant come out against that then why bother, there isnt much more important to a lot of people. I know Trump will be worse for the region, they do too but if you cant take a principled position that aligns with people you cant complain they didnt vote for you.
You can be rightfully mad at the party that’s failing to represent you correctly (I certainly am) and still make the pragmatic choice of not getting the guy who will make those issues worse elected.
We need to come together nationally and locally to attempt to affect change within the DNC more often than every 4 years, because it seems like every time we’re all reminded how incompetent they are, it’s too late for us to do anything about it for that election cycle.
Didnt everyone do that four years ago, in monumental numbers and there stood a president that provided the arms to blow children out of house and home and off the face of the planet.
Biden did a lot but he missed on some vital issues and that is the fault of the dems.
Yes, and now Trump will help provide significantly more arms than Harris would have, even if she kept providing the same amount as Biden. Surely I don’t have to tell you that that’s worse?
We need to mobilize to change the DNC and Democratic Party leadership in the time we have in between these decisions, not ignore it for 4 years and then throw away your vote in protest.
So the continued support of Israel was inevitable. The choice was between shipping food with the bombs or not. How would you go about changing the democratic party by voting them in, they did that four years ago and they just drifted further right.
Surely I dont need to point out that record numbers defested trump only to have israel propped up and the strictest border laws ever put to a vote by the democrats.
Here is how you change the democratic party, kick out the losers. I wanted her to win but now that she hasnt the party can only blame themselves.
Ok, but
Bernie lost in the primaries, it’s our own fault (I voted for him…)
DNC primaries are a joke. look at this last primary. oh wait we didn’t actually have a primary.
they intentionally waited until the “primary” was over so that Biden could get the incumbent automatic primary votes and then let him drop out so they could rush in Kamala without having a real primary.
i firmly believe if Democrats were not trying to game democracy this presidential cycle, DNC would have had a chance to beat Trump
If that was the case, they would have done it sooner. Kamala stepping in was definitely an unplanned, and unprecedented, move. It’s a huge risk to drop the incumbent in favor of somebody else.
i think it was perfectly timed
a) after the primary was informally settled
b) a couple weeks before the candidate was formally sworn in
sooner and there may have been a real primary contest. too risky. they did it with just enough time to sort of “zerg rush” Kamala into the primary without giving anyone time to mount a meaningful attempt at the primary
unprecedented, yes. it’s the first time in US history since we’ve been using the primary system that a candidate got the party nomination without a single vote being cast for them
risky, also yes. but they (I think correctly) determined that Biden was a lost cause.
so it was either a) go with the guy you know you’re gonna lose or b) go with someone you will probably lose with
b is the logical choice
The mythical left dem base doesn’t out vote average centerist group. If you are looking for a perfect group you’ll never find it
In support of that viewpoint, if they were ready to vote but just wanted to vote for someone who touted their interests, they’d have been there for a third party candidate, but they just were no where to be found.
Would be interested to see why people sat it out. To the extent it was something utterly mundane like “couldn’t afford to take any time off work to get it done”.
If you didnt want to vote gor either candidate why bother with the hardship to vote third party, everyone and their dog knew it was a two horse race. It always has been, and that is by design.
It is disingenuous to say they would have showed up for third parties when it was the same as not voting essentially.
Yeah, that’ll teach the do-nothing-dems!!1
So you want me to reward holocaust Harris and genocide joe for not doing ANYTHING to stop it? No, I chose to teach them a lesson. Don’t blame us. Blame the dems for not doing enough and putting a shit candidate.
What lesson exactly? That if the ideal candidate isn’t run, a subset of liberals will pick the worse of two options?
All that does is teach the conservatives that if they can convince you that the democrat candidate fails you enough on a single issue, they effectively have your vote. Regardless of the conservative candidate’s stance on that issue.
You have made the choice to make the problem you care about profoundly worse because there wasn’t a way to make it completely better. Have fun watching that play out as you intended I guess.
To teach that supporting genocide is a red line and not doing anything about it will not get you elected.
Ah, genocide at home, in Gaza AND possibly in Ukraine instead.
Genius!
Delusional take. I’ll see you in 4 years when no genocide occurred here in America.
The only lesson you taught them is that the general public wants more right-wing ideas. What you’ve done is teach trans, blacks, and other minorities a lesson, the lesson that they should be beaten and driven out of their country. You’ve taught that women should be submissive, treated like property, like they are in Saudi Arabia.
Good job. I hope you reflect on your “lesson” in the next four years, as your right to vote is systematical dismantled.
You seems to care a lot about blacks and trans people.
American black and trans people, of course. The rest of us can die, a little genocide is unavoidable, am I right?
To be fair, a good number of people voted for Trump because of identity politics as well
Gloating as the Palestinians receive news that help isn’t coming is something that someone who cares more about their own image than a genocide would do.
And where am I gloating exactly? I’m simply stating that you shouldn’t blame the voters but blame the dems for standing for genocide. Not like if harris was elected it would have been any better for the Palestinians.
I’d rather lose my hearing than vision if those are the only two options, despite not actually wanting to lose neither - which is not an option.
Lose both, then you can shamelessly shift blame rather than risk having to bear any kind of responsibility that comes with using the remaining option.
These people are as detached from reality as the MAGA crowd if they think they’re taking any kind of moral high road by staying home.