Unironically this. A few years ago I had people calling me alarmist when I pointed out the creeping fascism, and I said ‘if we wait until they’re waving Nazi flags and goose stepping in the streets, it will be too late’.
Well now we’ve got literal Nazis waving flags and goose stepping in the streets. Fuck everyone who called us alarmists. Many of them are still making excuses, and they’re the same sorts of people who were ‘utterly shocked’ to learn people were being gassed one town over during the Holocaust.
Maybe some of us will live to see them vomiting as they’re marched through the camps, crying and choking on human ash.
Fuck them all.
e: how about you cowards who are anonymously downvoting me leave a comment explaining why you disagree? I’d very much like to have a conversation with you where you could try to change my opinion. Don’t be a pussy, give me a response.
Boy you pissed off a few of the ignorant here, but you’re exactly right. I ran into the same thing over the years. This steady progression toward fascism has been a wild ride, and anyone who is remotely well-read understands what is going on.
Hi. Is there a larger number of nazis taking to the streets?
-person who does not watch the news
Yes, by orders of magnitude.
Here are some in Tampa, Florida.
You can google ‘Nazi’ plus literally every state and find multiple articles.
e: removed an historical article that wasn’t relevant; I got this conversation mixed with a different conversation I was having, sorry.
Yeah. Started with the ‘Unite the Right’ rally in 2017, now there are swastikas in a… disturbing number of right-wing protests, marches, rallies, etc. CPAC in 2021 used a popular Nazi norse rune for their stage. Requests by mainstream right-wing organization are asking for specific books about the Holocaust to be removed from public schools and libraries. It’s…
ugly.
Yeah, but you see Nazis means national SOCIALIST so they’re really left wing.
Which is why, um…, you’ll only find them flocking Republican rallies.
It seems that there is too much of a generalization here. Your given information about people calling you an alarmist is anecdotal. Where is the data that shows, from what the post is about, that all centralists act this way? I don’t see how being a centralist and being anti-facist can’t be true at the same time.
I fall into centralist territory, but I also believe that tyrrany comes from swinging too far to either side. Once you start moving so far in each direction you begin to have too much government overreach. Whether that comes in the form of dictating what car to drive, what is taught in school, who you can marry, or gender affirmation.
Too much control is too much control, period.
Nobody said it was all centrists, but there’s no such thing as benevolent neutrality when fascists are seizing power. There’s just not.
There’s also no leftist extremism in sufficient numbers to be a threat in the US. In fact, the vast majority of ‘the left’ in the US are actually traditional conservatives.
My anecdote may not be statistically relevant, but if you’ve spent time online in the last seven years, you’ll have encountered similar situations on a near daily basis. Pretty much every city has recently played host to openly Nazi rallies, and that’s because they’re comfortable coming out from under their rocks since one of the major parties accepts and supports them.
Currently in the US, the split is roughly 30% left of centre, 30% right, and 30% either centrist or not paying attention. That’s exactly the same breakdown of society as when the Nazis seized control in Germany. Centrism in the face of fascism helps the fascists succeed. We know this, and it’s part of why historians have been raising alarms.
“In fact, the vast majority of ‘the left’ in the US are actually traditional conservatives.”
There is a lot of truth in this. Years ago I abandoned the Republican party due to the ever growing bigotry towards POC. The caveat is that I cannot fully support the Democrat party with their own intolerance for, what I see as, personal liberties that they themselves are against.
The current political climate no longer allows room for moderate ideology and discourse. This comes from both left and right not being able to recognize their own extremist fringes.
“There’s also no leftist extremism in sufficient numbers to be a threat in the US.”
When COVID hit, the governor of New Mexico, Michelle Lujan Grisham, attempted to violate New Mexican civil rights with her proposed policies. She was adamant about restricting travel within the state along with out of state travel. This would have been a death blow for people, like myself, who live in rural areas. My nearest grocery store is in Arizona which would have meant a 2+ drive to a city in New Mexico to purchase goods. Luckily there was a fight put up to prevent this and to allow individualas living in rural area to travel out of state as necessary for goods and medical visits.
Just as Nazi extremists are creating turmoil, we cannot forget the riots that caused the burning of businesses and homes during the riots of 2020. Instead of condemning the riots what did many Liberal politicians do at that time? Were the emotions and voices calling for justice warranted? Absolutely. Was the destruction that ensued afterwards warranted? No.
Recognition and combating of the violence and control that extremists are attempting on the average person is necessary no matter what side of the political spectrum you fall on.
I won’t disagree that the continued presence and surfacing of Nazi groups is alarming and needs to be addressed and resolved. What I can’t say is that this is the only political extreme that is surfacing in the United States.
lol @ all of the “I got called a nazi for no reason” in the thread, followed by some nazi-like shit that they did.
I’ve only ever been called a grammar Nazi. I’m fine with that one.
Leftists literally call my whole country Nazi, when we have a Jewish president. Then they go and justify an invasion by the empire we were ruled by as “anti-imperialism”
It’s amazing how much emotion can be conveyed with literally an empty black circle
This is why I describe myself as “Left-Center”, I fucking hate tankies, and honestly I’m getting tired of… How to describe this without sounding like a dick?
I’m getting tired of people trying to be offended on behalf of groups who they feel should be offended by something, I’m getting tired of people who want to LARP that they’re making the world a better more tolerant place when really they’re just ruining media with pointless censorship.
Many of both groups are on the Left.
However I am fully lucid of the fact that pretty much every problem in my life is because Far Right Boomers hold way too much power, so if it ultimately comes down to Left or Right, (which it has, have you seen the world situation lately?) then it’s the Left for me.
Plus I don’t want to be mistaken for one of those bad faith “Bar Nazi” types. You know the kind: “Personally, I think the nation is too divided, lots of bad people on both sides… Now let me exclusively criticize the Left while dropping some blatant dogwhistles.”
I’m getting tired of people trying to be offended on behalf of groups who they feel should be offended by something,
That’s an important part of being inclusive, though. If you’re in a space that, for example, tolerates racist jokes, then there are going to be people who don’t feel welcome there. Confronting the person making the jokes is going to be uncomfortable, but by not confronting it, you’re prioritizing your comfort over others’.
I’m a Euro-American male, but I’m just repeating what people of color have been saying for years. Read what African-Americans write about race. How To Be An Anti-Racist wasn’t written by a white SJW. It was written by Ibram X Kendi, an actual African-American man. Read what people from these groups have written about their own experiences.
True, but what I’m talking about the instances where someone not from a group has arbitrarily decided is offensive to a group they don’t belong to, when the group doesn’t necessarily agree.
For example, we’ve had cases of white liberals getting offended at fictional characters wearing sombreros (Such as is the case with Mario Odyessy), whereas actual Hispanic groups saw that as being more endearing and inclusive… and well the whole “Latinx” debacle…
I’m white, but I’m also trans, so I definitely see a little bit of these myself resulting in dumbasses spouting “Cis is a slur!” (No, no it is not!)
The problem with this line of thinking is that the groups in question aren’t monoliths. Latinx wasn’t a term made by white people, it was made by Latinx/Latino non-binary people and then adopted more broadly because they advocated for it.
Some other people of the affected group thinking it’s silly doesn’t mean the term or sensitivity is just made up white savior SJWism. The are plenty of women who think a woman’s place is in the kitchen and following their husband’s lead, but that doesn’t mean feminism is junk. People have a tendency to latch on to some segment of the population that thinks the SJW term is silly not because their number one priority is respecting the population as a whole, but because it gives them a pass to not change their habits.
*sombreros
Oh thank you, I hadn’t even noticed I mispelled the word.
They’re trying to be allies, and sometimes they get it wrong, but I think that’s better than the alternative (which is simply staying silent in all cases).
In the case of “Latinx”, it seems like it was dreamed up by somebody who didn’t know anything about Spanish. Just put an X on it, now it’s inclusive! The problem is you can’t conjugate a noun with a fucking X on the end. The preferred term is now “Latine”, which has a gender-neutral ending that fits with the rest of the language and is being promoted by Latin(e!) civil rights groups.
Indeed, it still gets annoying though.
Sometimes uneducated or willfully ignorant allies can give one the feeling of “At this point I’m begging you to just call me a slur instead.”
That said you’re absolutely right, we should encourage people for trying to learn and help them to get it right. Instead of screaming at them over a faux pas they stepped in hard.
Still I will never get over the time a doctor I had bizarrely assumed that because I was trans, that I somehow knew Caitlyn Jenner personally and could “invite her to speak at the practice.” She did not remain my doctor long between this and “We are okay with you being trans but we aren’t sure it would be appropiate to prescribe you estradial even though you’ve been taking it for years with another doctor in another town… even though we specifically told you you could get transgender care here without going out of town if you made us your primary”
You can see why switching was a high priority
(For the record this was back when public acknowledgement of transpeople was just starting to get going and before it was commonly accepted that Jenner is a piece of shit. Thankfully more and more doctors in the area do endocrinology for trans patients who have already bene on it for sometime… don’t know if as many will start you off though but it is what it is)
Replace “tankies” with “woke” and this comment just becomes exactly the same comment a far right chud would say.
If you’re concerned about being “mistaken” for a bar nazi then perhaps you should not say things a bar nazi would say?
Criticizing other leftists doesn’t make you a “bar nazi”
For fuck’s sake open your fucking eyes
This is why I describe myself as “centrist”, I fucking hate the woke, and honestly I’m getting tired of…
I’m getting tired of people trying to be offended on behalf of groups who they feel should be offended by something, I’m getting tired of people who want to LARP that they’re making the world a better more tolerant place when really they’re just ruining media with pointless censorship.
As long as someone writes the word tankies in a comment you morons will agree with it even if the writer is practically goosestepping.
Yes it does, shut the fuck up and open your eyes
Notice the couple idiots below finding sympathy for the QUITE LITERAL nazi in the comic.
Turns out human rights are the real Nazism.
FELLAS!!! Is it Nazi to be a Nazi?!
So much for the tolerant left
You should never tolerate intolerance. The nazis basic philosophy boils down to intolerance. If you let that shit continue then you end up with genocide. So fuck those nazi shit heels. And if you’re sympathizing with a cartoon nazi maybe you should reevaluate your life choices.
“So much for the tolerant left” is a meme making fun of those people, I think they’re saying it in jest.
But the meme exists (with a Nazi being punched) because that’s exactly what a lot of right-wingers say. No way to tell whether or not it’s sarcasm with just the text.
Honestly hard to tell with some of the enlightened centrists in this thread
A centrist makes up their mind based on the merits of the topic, not based on opinions from the left or the right. A centrist isn’t someone who says “both sides have a point.”
So I’m not sure what this comic has to do with centrists.
A centrist isn’t someone who says “both sides have a point.”
A centrist should say “both sides have a point”, but they should not stop there - they should critically review these points to decide which ones are stronger and more correct on a case-by-case basis.
I used to be a centrist and the right wing has very, very few points they’re genuinely right about. That’s just the honest truth
“Self professed centrists”
Something tells me those that call themselves centrists, don’t always subscribe to the actual definition of centrism. But in praxis, centrists share a status quo mentality, which means they’re pro-capitalism, which means they side with the political right on most issues.
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Sweetie, that’s not centerists, that’s a typical liberal that gets nothing done.
ETA: also, don’t mistake this comment for a pro-conservative comment- I am leftist through and through, it is just that liberal parties have a history of lowering standards in the name of not stepping on toes and therefore not making a lot of progress, while spouting all these virtuous things they “believe in”.
Oh sweetie… You don’t know what you’re talking about.
I’m in the US so this is a US centric point but: what party was in power when roe was overturned? And I don’t mean tell me the technical rules about why that happened I mean in real terms, how have the liberals exercised political power to implement actual change
Why are you arguing about what party was in power? It was the supreme court who did it…
And how are liberals supposed to enact rm change when they don’t have enough of either house of Congress to do things by themselves and Republicans are determined to be obstructionist? Are they supposed to ignore the rules like Republicans did with Merrick Garland?
Because they’re trying to demonstrate to you that liberal democrats are completely ineffective at stopping the growing fascist right, and quite honestly, they’re right. The Democrats could have expanded the Supreme Court while Obama was in office, but they didn’t. They could have pushed back on every little dumb thing the Republicans have done in the past 22 years, but they didn’t, because they are legitimately just as terrible as they are.
You’re just responding with condescension and vitriol because you know your position is weak, and it shows.
If the rules can be ignored then they aren’t really rules are they
Can I not say that there are real fascists on the right, that it’s a very serious issue, and that I don’t agree with some things the left strongly identifies with?
and that I don’t agree with some things the left strongly identifies with?
Why don’t you go ahead and name some of those things then?
I am against abortion. But someone else might be more libertarian (I am not a libertarian) yet view the Republican party as evil. Even if you think that person not a good person, calling them a nazi or a fascist doesn’t really make sense.
I am against abortion.
Pretty big yikes to start out with just a blanket statement like that, but you do you.
But someone else might be more libertarian (I am not a libertarian) yet view the Republican party as evil. Even if you think that person not a good person, calling them a nazi or a fascist doesn’t really make sense.
I’m not really sure what you mean by this part other than you just think the term fascist is being applied in scenarios where there’s just disagreement?
But it really isn’t difficult to see the modern Republican party very much represents the ideals of fascism. It isn’t even a stretch. Let’s go through the definition of fascism:
“a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition” - from Merriam Webster Online
so in order:
- Exalts nation and often race of above the individual? Check.
- stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader? Seeing as how they tried to install Trump with a coup in 2021 I’d say that’s a pretty easy check.
- severe economic and social regimentation? All you have to do is look at republican tax cuts to see that is a big fat CHECK.
- forcible suppression of opposition? Look at who supports the police force and what groups are typically on the receiving end of police brutality. Check.
As you can see it doesn’t take waving a nazi flag or sieg heiling all over the place to fit at least some of the requirements to be labeled a fascist, and if we go by these metrics there are a lot of people actively supporting fascism in our country right now. I don’t think the term is much overused to be honest.
Umberto Eco gives an excellent 14 points to identify fascism.
- The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
- The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
- The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
- Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
- Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
- Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”
- The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”
- The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
- Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
- Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
- Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
- Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
- Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”
- Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”
Bro this applies a little too well to the left too
There are self-proclaimed leftist movements which fit ur-fascism as defined here. Which is unsurprising, considering that leftism is generally defined by opposition to capitalism, while fascism can be for or against capitalism.
cough Straw Man cough
I mean, have you ever seen a guy shouting sieg Heil with a Nazi flag?
Nope, I haven’t. Seen plenty of normal people getting called fascists by internet leftists. Lots dehumanzing from internet leftists, actually. Kinda ironic.
Get your head out of the sand. If your not seeing it, you’re just not paying attention.
Prepare for
That didn’t happen.
And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
And if it was, that’s not a big deal.
And if it is, that’s not their fault.
And if it was, they didn’t mean it.
And if they did, you deserved it.
See also: “wow are you suggesting this person doesn’t have the right to express themselves?? Sounds like you’re the real Nazi!”
Of course they have the right to express themself. That makes it easier to find the Nazis, duh
I want Nazis to be scared to share their ideas. I want Nazis to be so scared they don’t crawl out of the gutters they live in.
Please describe how you imagine a “Nazi” wakes up and gets ready for their day. I’m curious what’s behind the label. Would you also use the words ‘toxic’ and ‘bigot’ to describe these people and if not what does a ‘toxic’ person and a ‘bigot’ do to start their days? (from your perspective, of course)
Please describe how you imagine a “Nazi” wakes up and gets ready for their day. I’m curious what’s behind the label.
What? Obviously a Nazi wakes up at 7:30 sharp, puts on their arm band then combs their dumb little brush mustache. Then they heil and finish getting ready. /s
What kind of question is that? There’s no one way nazis wakes up. That’s not what makes a Nazi a Nazi.
Would you also use the words ‘toxic’ and ‘bigot’ to describe these people and if not what does a ‘toxic’ person and a ‘bigot’ do to start their days? (from your perspective, of course)
Are you trying to imply Nazis aren’t bigots and dangerous/toxic to society, and if not - why did you even ask this? What is the purpose of that question if not to imply that?
I’m talking about Nazis. Nazi Nazis. The Nazis that keep popping up everywhere. This was news, big news at the time. Pretending like you didn’t see it isn’t an excuse now, because you’ve now been shown it.
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This is an AI response isn’t it?
I’ve used enough chatGPT to recognize it’s writing patterns. One of the things that stands out the most is saying you want to have a discussion, but not actually saying anything that needs to be commented on. That’s a telltale sign for an AI response.
Edit: Oh, and you’re a mod of an AI community? I’m certain it’s an AI response now.
It’s my response filtered through AI to avoid your manipulations and keep the conversation aimed at what I was asking about to begin with and not what you attempted to change the context to. :) Any other dodges?
Good lord. Are you a real human? If so, this is shameful.
Oh so shameful that I’m not brainwashed into removing the humanity from people and using identity politics to manipulate arguments and send the brigaide of idiots after people to pretend like my points are valid.
That’s basically what the right wants for the left!
Not really. The right tends to go a little bit harder in that direction:
Are you not white? Be scared. Jew? Be scared. Muslim? Be scared. Gay? Be scared. Socialist? Be scared. Woman? Be scared.
The left is a lot better in that regard, as they tend to limit the “bash their heads in” option toward literal Nazis. It seems to me that the right doesn’t feel a need to limit themselves in any way here.
I met a guy once who flew Nazi flags on his car. Figured I’d actually talk to him about it reasonably rather than reacting and calling him a Nazi. He basically explained he only did it because he had the right to because of freedom of speech and expression.
It was almost like he was just trying to bait people because he enjoyed the commotion?
Idk it was weird, but makes me wonder if that’s how most of these “nazi” people are
“I’m only being a Nazi ironically” is the attitude of either someone whose opinions should not be taken seriously in any circumstance, or a Nazi.
I take everyone’s opinions seriously, or try to. We’re all just meat sacks in a rock hurtling through space. We all were raised in different circumstances. So who am I to say someone is wrong for their beliefs?
… so you wouldn’t say a Nazi is wrong for their beliefs
What difference does it actually make? That person is still performing Nazi-ism, even if they say they don’t believe it. That person is still showing support for Nazi-ism, and making minorities feel unsafe.
To be clear, there is a really good chance that they are full of crap, they do believe it, they’re just “joking” until the final punchline lands.
But one’s internal beliefs don’t actually mean much in comparison to their actions.
Isn’t the illegal part of Nazi-ism the actual fascism, violence, othering, couping, etc parts though and not its symbology?
Does overly assigning evil to a set of symbols give a path for similar evils with different symbols to come about? I’ve wondered about that and modern American Christian Fascism – I think it’s more invisible than it should be because people conflate fascism with the Nazis symbols directly instead of its ideals and methods.
I never know how to feel about the auditors and ‘law tester’ people – they sure seem assholish, but they do always make me think about interesting important questions about the law and society.
Flying a Nazi flag is itself, with no other acts, hurting people. This is like saying “the cross burning didn’t hurt anyone, the lynchings were the real problem”.
Being a nazi ironically is still being a nazi
you seem to have as good of a grasp on irony as alanis morissette.
No… they used it correctly. One of the definitions of irony is a clash of expectations. The Nazi flag is a symbol of fascism, and fascism is a form of government that suppresses free speech. So a person embracing Nazi emblems for the sake of free speech would qualify.
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You can be a “free speech” advocate without having one iota of Nazi sympathies. I’m all for free speech, particularly people like Nazi sympathizers. It lets us know who they are, where they are, the people they associate with, and if needed, who needs severe ass beating. Having “free speech” doesn’t exclude you from the consequences of using “free speech.”
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Case in point
If the driver is genuinely black, then I am genuinely confused 😱
Just because you are black doesn’t mean you can’t be a moronic asshole as well.
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Didn’t realize I worshipped Biden. Here I thought I only voted for him because he was better than the death of the American Republic.
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“I voted for a literal fascist to save the Republic” sounds a lot more like you’re scared that taxes will go up by 2%. Whether you worship him like the drooling knuckledraggers with Trump flags is immaterial. It doesn’t make you any less of a fucking fascist.
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This “you don’t know what fascism is” thing is getting so old. It’s ultra-patriotism. Nation before self. USA has had a fascist streak forever. Even pre-WW2 and even post-WW2 we had fascist sympathizers.
None of this is new. MAGA is not new. Fascism is not complicated.
What did Mussolini want? Italy first. What did Hitler want? Germany first. What did the Japanese junta want? Japan first. What did the British, French, US etc want? Preservation of the balance of power. No one country first. NOBODY first. Trade and negotiation and treaties between equals instead.
What is so hard to understand about any of this? It’s really not hard. What does Putin want? Russia first. What does Xi Jinping want? China first. What do the US, UK, France etc want? The balance of power, no one country first. Instead trade and negotiation and treaties between equals.
Ive been called a nazi for liking firearms.
Meanwhile, I openly support antifa.
So im not sure this is completely accurate.
People aren’t always rational. I’m anti-gun in general, but I’m also very pro-antifa and am fully aware that means shooting nazis when it comes to it.
I’m not against people owning weapons, I’m against the fetishisation of them and I believe they belong in secure storage or for hunting, not strapped to an idiot in Walmart, in people’s videos, or posed with proudly on Christmas cards like a damned Taliban photoshoot.
There’s a time and a place, and that’s not everywhere all the time, such that minor fistfights become shootouts at the corral.
I’m pretty left, but I’d never call a regular gun owner a nazi. Whoever said that is an idiot.
