- cross-posted to:
- aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
Elon Musk is on pace to become the world’s first trillionaire by 2027, according to a new report from a group that tracks wealth.
Informa Connect Academy’s finding about the boss of electric carmaker Tesla, private rocket company SpaceX and social media platform X (formerly Twitter) stems from the fact that Musk’s wealth has been growing at an average annual rate of 110%. He was also the world’s richest person, with $251bn, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, as the academy’s 2024 Trillion Dollar Club report began circulating Friday.
The academy’s analysis suggested business conglomerate founder Gautam Adani of India would become the second to achieve trillionaire status. That would reportedly happen in 2028 if his annual growth rate remains at 123%.
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This is a stupid article. I don’t think we can expect him to see 123% growth rate for 3 more years. That’s like saying my kid grew 6 inches this year by the time they’re 40 they will be 19 feet tall.
Not only is it stupid for exaggeration but for also glossing over the idea that it’s logical, sensible or moral for any person to own so much wealth that they would never be able to enjoy even just 1% of that during a single lifetime.
It’s completely absurd also from the thought that as one person owns enough wealth to pay for the lives of millions of people … millions of people are living in complete poverty and starvation.
We look through ancient history and laugh at the thought of our ancestors who worshipped kings, queens, god men, emperors and all powerful leaders … we’re still doing the same thing.
These thoughts don’t just reflect on people like Musk but on all of us for thinking and accepting that this is all normal behavior for what we all like to think is a modern sophisticated society.
I hate it, and I think the wealth he hoards should be used on social services and the people who need I’m billionaires, let alone trillionaires, should not exist, millionaires are on thin ice. But what are we to do? Is it possible for me to change the culture where I live so that people no longer worship him? According to your statement, no, we have always been this way. So what then? Do nothing for fear I’ll be the lone ranger and promptly arrested? The State has the keys, and as long as people are divided so much so that we can’t agree its not okay for people to have so much of our single resource pie, we will live with the State’s decree that billionaires deserve to exist.
Solid journalist math. According to this logic, if I keep pressing the gas pedal on a 1.0 VW Golf, it will reach the speed of light by 2028. Amazing performance for such a small machine
I feel like there should be a prize for this
Perhaps involving a french antique with a place to rest one’s head
I’m okay with taxing ultrawealthy billionaires and corporations out of existence, and giving them back the benefits of a well-fed/housed/clothed/educated/healthy population, of which they would also be the same.
That’s an excellent point. For this oligarch and all others.
Hear me out, we should go with mega guillotine: https://youtu.be/YYJ5ZViYhHQ
Itym GIGA guillotine
ooh, french laurels
Tax the fuck out of him.
I’d be more worried about shit like this (reported in the article) …
(Musk’s) post said an interview between former Fox News host Tucker Carlson and podcaster Darryl Cooper – a fellow rightwing media figure – was “very interesting. Worth watching.”
Cooper claimed in the interview that the Nazis did not mean to murder so many people when they carried out the Holocaust and killed 6 million Jews during the second world war. Instead, Cooper remarked, Adolf Hitler’s Nazi regime simply was not equipped to care for them – and the podcaster blamed British prime minister Winston Churchill for “that war becoming what it did”.
Musk ultimately deleted his post, and the White House condemned Carlson’s interview of Cooper as “a disgusting and sadistic insult to all Americans”.
Right now, if he were able to convert all of his $241.8B to cash, then distribute it evenly among all of the employees at all of his companies, he could give each of his 146,000 employees $1.6M.
No one person should be that wealthy. I don’t necessarily think that billionaires should be abolished, but I do think they should be paying a shit load more in taxes than they are.
Also, before anyone says it, yes, I know it’s not as simple as converting his holdings to cash. I’m just saying “if it were possible”.
Right now, if he were able to convert all of his $241.8B to cash, then distribute it evenly among all of the employees at all of his companies, he could give each of his 146,000 employees $1.6M.
Fun fact that this doesn’t work for every billionaire. Tech companies don’t employ very many people compared to their revenue.
If you go by by profits returned to owners as opposed to sale value it’s even more stark. Amazon still hasn’t paid out anything; it’s all been plowed straight back into expansion.
I don’t necessarily think that billionaires should be abolished,
To piss off the remaining side of the political spectrum: Why not?
if he were able to convert all of his $241.8B to cash
That’s the assumption everyone makes but it’s a false premise. If he tried to sell all his shares it would cause the stock price to collapse, his wealth would plummet, and his companies would be in jeopardy. Far from being able to give all of them $1.6M, they would all likely lose their jobs.
That’s also the issue with taxing them. If someone owns a billion dollar company (based on the price of their shares of stock) we call them a billionaire but they might not have very much money in cash (say a few million). Suppose we want to tax them 10% of their wealth: that’s $100 million! They don’t have enough cash to pay for that, so they have to sell shares, which causes the share price to go down, which negatively affects the company and the workers.
I think the issue is with how we view ownership of a business vs other things, like a yacht. The yacht can be sold to pay taxes and it won’t affect other people. The company cannot. In a lot of ways, the company isn’t just a possession of the owner, it’s a responsibility. These days I feel like we don’t talk enough about responsibility.
Fuck ‘em
If someone owns a billion dollar company (based on the price of their shares of stock) we call them a billionaire but they might not have very much money in cash (say a few million).
The moment shares are used as a source of value to leverage, they should be taxed on that assessed value. Because this is also how so many of the wealthy can get away with “$0 income” - they are “paid” in shares, then turn around and use those shares to get loans from the bank to pay their living expenses. They essentially leverage shares for tax-free income.
If any and all leverage on shares are taxed on that assessed leverage, the Parasite Class would no longer have any way to shield their obscene wealth from taxation.
Its not difficult and its done all the time
The shares a company gives me as a reward are taxed the instant I receive them and deducted directly from the shares.
E.g. company gives me 20 shares but the tax is worth 1 share. Company sells that 1 share on my behalf to cover the taxes. I receive 19 shares in my account.
The big concern is the rich dodging taxes on value increase. In theory you have the “shares as income” when acquired as a restricted stock, and then capital gains/loss to cover value change between acquisition and sale. However there’s room for loopholes when using the unrealized value of the stock as basis for a loan, to defer tax and potentially all the way to death and then doing other tracks around estate taxes.
Shares aren’t always given to you as a reward. If you are the sole founder of a company then you create the shares yourself and decide who to give (or sell) them to. If you choose not to take your company public on the stock market, then what your stake in the company is worth is unclear. Sure, the company may have assets (equipment, properties, resources) but that’s only the book value. The true market value of the company might be much higher.
Look at a software company. The software they create might never be sold, only used to provide services. The market value of the company could far exceed the book value of all the desks, chairs, computers, and other stuff the company has at the office. But you don’t really know that if the company never goes public. So how do you tax it?
If he tried to sell all his shares it would cause the stock price to collapse
Why? If the fundamentals are there, there should be a hard floor on stock prices. It would take a while for the market to absorb that much Twitter and SpaceX, but I see no reason it’s impossible. Actually, I bet Twitter’s (off-book) cap would go up if Musk was leaving.
If you’re trying to defend capitalism (whatever that means to you), keep in mind that you’re basically suggesting stocks have no actual, intrinsic value here.
Billionaires don’t actually do this, though, because liquid cash doesn’t earn.
The S&P 500 is “worth” 45 trillion dollars.
The M2 money supply is less than half of that. There does not exist as money dollars to spend as the nominal value of all the stock.
The stock value is extrapolated from the shares that do move, but those extrapolations fall apart in the “cash it all out” scenario.
That being said, it just means we have to be careful about how we proceed. For example, better tax capture of loans and estates, which is a big dodge for people with high stock wealth.
Cashing out the entire S&P 500 is very different from cashing out one billionaire. Most of the people who buy stocks already own stuff on the S&P 500, so it’s unclear who that trade would be with, exactly. Same exact thing for real estate: if you sold the entire continental US (again, whatever that means) it would probably exceed 45 trillion, but I’m still pretty comfortable saying if you own 100 billion worth of Manhattan real estate, you actually have 100 billion dollars, and could reasonably pay a 90 billion dollar bill given enough time.
Careful is good when it comes to policy, I definitely agree with that.
Putting a huge percentage of a company up for sale on the open market is going to tank the price no matter what the fundamentals are. It’s simple supply and demand: you’re putting a huge glut of supply on the market and not putting similar demand. All those sell orders will begin expiring as the offers drop in price.
The largest owner of shares putting everything on the market at once is strong signal that the stock is overpriced and so buyers will react accordingly.
By the way, TSLA has a P/E ratio in the 60’s so it’s not exactly a great deal anyway.
I’m neither defending nor attacking capitalism. I’m just pointing out that putting heavy taxes on illiquid assets leads to huge disruptions.
The increase in value of shares above book is called unrealized gains. They can be here today and gone tomorrow. Taxing makes no sense unless you’re going to reimburse the taxes if the shares drop in price.
It’s not like you can buy too much of an earning stock. I’m pretty sure elasticity approaches zero quickly if someone is dumping a well-known, profitable company. It might induce some paranoia, but big investors don’t get to where they are by panicking often.
By the way, TSLA has a P/E ratio in the 60’s so it’s not exactly a great deal anyway.
Depends. Amazon doesn’t even have one; tech stocks are often driven by future potential. I wouldn’t buy a car from them though.
Generally accurate, but need to address ways they get money whole avoiding realization of taxable capital gains (e.g. borrowing).
But yes, even if he is a paper trillionaire, you won’t find people willing to actually give him a trillion dollars for his stocks. It’s still some absurdly high number, but our math does not really model exactly what the “real” wealth would be.
There are infinite possible ways to implement wealth tax. If you want to avoid your scenario, tax corporations on their profits, reducing the dividend payout to shareholders. For example.
These people have ALL THE MONEY and it needs to be stopped, like yesterday. Find a way.Taxing profits just means the company will borrow from investors (by issuing bonds) and then instead of profits paying out as dividends the company shows losses from interest payments.
I would rather try land value taxes.
Projecting him reaching a trillion dollars by using his average annual growth rate of >100% is ridiculous.
Meanwhile countless innocent, hard working, and good people are forced into being victims of genocide, abuse, homelessness, hunger, disease, slavery and more. All because the greed of the rich can never be satisfied. Bring out the guillotines.
I bet Leon is delicious.
I hope he’s dead by 2027.
I hope he’s dead
by 2027.
Well, I do wonder what trillionaires taste like. Any seasoning/cooking recommandations ?
I do wonder what trillionaires taste like
Lard and bullshit, I would imagine.
Oregano will go well with the traces of ketamine in the fat tissue.
Burn it and leave it on the stove.
Better marinate that meat in a strong stout for at least a week. :p
I hate this fucking planet so goddamn much
Hey ey ey, don’t go getting all testy with the planet because of some fuckwit humans.
Because the cybertruck is selling like hotcakes and x, fka twitter is making so much money right?
Regular Teslas are still very desirable luxury EVs and sell like hot cakes. SpaceX clearly just had to rescue Boeing’s blunder.
Those two will grow and big time. No matter how much you cry about the downfall of your beloved Xitter.
I know absolutely no one who thinks a Tesla (any of them) is a luxury EV. Musk is doing a great job making them undesirable to the general public, hence the large amount of unsold teslas sitting around in lots. It’s not all because of his politics, some of it is just because their quality control is terrible, as is their software.
Could it perhaps be that online communities are in bubbles that focus primarily on his failures and downvote into oblivion any mention of successes he might have had?
…
No, it must be the money that’s wrong.
That’s the people
Past returns are no guarantee of future success. How many damn times do financial people have to say this?
Given that they’ve implicitly sampled only the most successful past performers to start with, I’m going to say this is a rare case where the gambler’s fallacy works. More likely than not, his future returns will be lower.
Any reaction gif I could possibly post would be inappropriate and far too disgusting for public viewing, so just imagine I posted a gif of someone spewing bodily fluids out of every orifice like a firehose to gauge my response to finding this out.
Like this?
Can you not use your imagination? Did you learn nothing from Mr. Rogers and Figment?
Just trying to make sure we’re all on the same page here
I mean you kinda manifested this here, so let’s not act surprised.
I’m just glad it’s not Tubgirl.
Why are you like this
I’m down with that.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Respectfully begging to differ, I think he did demonstrate solid self-control by not posting such a picture.
Further, I think he was just expressing his disgust for obscene wealth.
I’ll believe it when I see it. He made his good financial decisions when he wasn’t full mask-off insane, since his wife left him and his daughter disowned him he’s had more important things to deal with, like wasting his money turning back the clock so neither of them have any rights anymore. Currently he is just banking off of those good early decisions.
I won’t speak to the specific financials of his companies, but I don’t see him maintaining his current growth rate while so distracted for much longer. I also see his attachment to companies as a growing impediment, not an asset.
The only way this would be conceivable is if FSD actually worked, the robot works and change everything we know, or spacex is sending hundreds of ships to Mars each window.
Doesn’t seem possible, nor do I think solving only 1 of the above makes it possible.
Edit: or we wait long enough for inflation to make today’s assets at a future inflated value be worth that much without losing any of it in the meantime…
Nobody actually beats the market. I’m pretty sure the insanity was there all along; he just got lucky several times in a row.
Nobody actually beats the market.
Nancy Pelosi has entered the chat.
It’s possible putin was already a trillionaire before the war
