Trump isn’t an icon of positive masculinity. He also did very little for young men during his four years as president
Right-wing incels, hot off their carnivore diet, roids, and worship of Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson wondering why women flee from them and yet continue to double-down on the likes of worshiping shitheads like Trump and Andrew Tate.
It’s the exploitation of the ignorant and vulnerable; naturally, right-wing puppeteers are telling them it’s everyone else who is the problem.
I don’t care really for either side tbh, but an argument I’ve heard somewhat recently is; they are at least talking to that demographic, not calling them incels, losers etc. Again, team red can drown in an oil fire, but it’s about the only thing that approaches making some sense.
I don’t think Trump has the interest of literally any of his voters at heart. He’s only interested in helping himself and he legally can’t even vote for himself.
Edit: TIL Trump can still vote.
Florida (Trump’s home state) Law:
a felony conviction in another state makes a person ineligible to vote in Florida only if the conviction would make the person ineligible to vote in the state where the person was convicted.
New York (State of felony convictions) Law:
a person convicted of a felony is disenfranchised only while incarcerated for that felony.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/can-trump-vote-now-he-has-felony-convictions
Is it true he is no longer eligible to vote?
Unfortunately that was just wishful thinking. I had to confirm and according to Florida and New York state law, he will be about to vote unless he ends up being incarcerated in New York at the time.
To be fair I think felons and imprisoned folk should be allowed to vote.
Why not just kick them out of the country if you are going to disenfranchise them like that?
That’s fair, although a bit extreme jumping straight to kicking them out of the country.
How about just politicians with felonies then?
Yeah that was meant to be some form of sarcasm I couldn’t figure out how to word right.
I don’t think citizens really should ever lose their right to vote. Its absurd to me.
I will say people who commit political crimes should be barred from politics though.
It’s hard for imprisoned people to have a fair vote, unhindered by pressure from guards, administration, or gangs. You think for-profit prisons selling slave labor of their inmates is bad, just offer them the opportunity to sell their votes.
Well that would be an easy one to expose though wouldnt it? Theres no chance a prison could keep that hidden.
Should be noted that young male voters are some of the least reliable voters to turn out. Yes, he’s gone hard on the Joe Rogan demographic with his pandering. Yes, its working (because… advertising works!) No, I don’t think its going to be a winning strategy in the end, because them hoes ain’t loyal.
But he has their prejudices, incel misogyny, and hatreds on public display. That’s good enough for many.
Also, there are far too many that see the world burning as some kind of entertainment. I hate to be the old guy yelling at people on the lawn, but I don’t know if the popular social media theme of destroying or damaging things, or doing mean shit to people for lols, is a symptom or a display that encourages or makes that behavior ok. There’s no consequences for that behavior, it’s entertainment, and some of that same attitude seems to bleed over into real-life actions.
I have definitely worked with people who voted for trump for no other reason than lols and to stir shit up.
Literally Steve Bannons plan.
Get “rootless” white men (he aimed for gamers) angry and get them “on your side.”
I blame Bannon and Reich wing media for this bullshit now where ANY NEW GAME is guaranteed to have a “WoKe GaMe?” post in the steam discussions.
They can’t even think for themselves… They need to be told it’s woke so they know to be mad at it…
That’s not bannon that’s his shithead radio predecessor Rush Limbaugh and before that Reagan then Nixon so on and so forth right up until the party fracture.
WHAT
something with the education and upbringing must be f up, if young men are impressed by him
is this based on facts? the last thing i saw of him was a train wreck, he can’t pull of a 2 !!! minute interview
Some may see him as a “counterculture”…thumbing the nose at establised rules youngsters naturally want to rebel against through causing outrage and stupid jokes. It’s like any other stupid manufactured fad in that respect.
This 20-year-old documentary about marketing to teens sort of reminds me of it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0tYRoiJvhJ4&list=PL_pPc6-qR9ZwlDyyk6o-X_gib47lpqlGP&index=15&pp=iAQB but now applied to ideas in the internet instead of products.
thanks for the explanation, i will watch the video link you gave me.
but really, i watched a couple of speeches of his, and i just could not grasp what he was talking about. it was like listening to a rambling drunken friend, that you have to bring home, and you yourself are sober.
I realized like you that it is not the content or the actions, it is a brand that appeals to their emotions (and the grown-ups too who got conditioned to react to a type of branding over the years). It’s just like selling an Adidas.
And it’s tragic, because he stands against everything they could ever gain…like an opioid…which reminds me of the Shady Vance quote:
In 2016 and 2017, Vance, then best-known for penning the best-selling book “Hillbilly Elegy” said Trump was “cultural heroin” and “just another opioid” for Middle America.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/15/politics/kfile-jd-vance-comments-trump/index.html
and this olympic gold for spinelessness (a posteriori):
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/opioid-of-the-masses/489911/
lol
yeah, i was surprised, i live in europe, you know, i dont know anything. so i was watching this conservative panel, and they were all saying that they realized he does not have the same ethics as them at all, it was comical how they tried to explain it to the MAGA people.
thanks for links, thats a good read
The US will get the leader they deserve.
Too bad the rest of the world will feel the consequences as well while they have no say in the matter.
Nor does half the country. I just don’t understand why trump appeals to young men at all. He’s just some horrifically uncool geezer.
Because all of the aggrieved male content on yt, TikTok, podcasts, etc. There’s an entire normie-to-nazi pipeline ffs, and the social media algorithms continually promote stuff that’s just slightly more “edgy”, and suddenly kids have gone from Joe Rogan to Andrew Tate. Because all of the white males behind social media - spez, Zuckerberg, Musk, etc - agree with that content and continue to find excuses to “free speech” it.
Those boys should put in more work getting laid. And that’s only a partial joke.
The incel thing drags them in, step 1 into the pipe. The can’t get laid, must be something going on they can’t put their finger on, but that thing is damned sure someone else’s fault.
“I’m white, OK looking and I’m a nice guy!” The unspoken question, the unthought question, is, “What happened to my privilege?” For past generations, life seemed to work out well enough for white guys, but it sure as hell isn’t working out for me!
Demographic shift has been wild in my lifetime. Too young to have experienced this, they get a feeling that something nebulous has changed, for the worse. They see minorities of all stripes stepping onto a more level playing field and then tune into YouTubers saying, “Yes! Now you get it! The other is the thing you didn’t realize was holding you down!” Well god damn, now it all makes sense!
Back to getting laid, the fun part. Nothing like a good screw to smooth those rejected feels. You’re wanted, wanted as a man. But if they think going hard-right is going to land them some pussy, oh boy… The few women in that scene are strictly for the alphas! Your beta ass won’t even get scraps.
Dated quite a bit couple of years back. That was an education. Few women had political statements in their profiles, but many wrote something akin to, “I’m not interested in politics.”, often followed by a lovey, flowery sentence to lighten the mood. Men: This is code for, “Don’t come at me with your Trump bullshit.” Yes, apparently guys often pull that horsepucky on the first date. These woman are screening for conservatives, they ain’t gonna hear it. Talking on the phone to a potential date (who I ended up dating for a few months!),
“(laughing) Yeah, I’m a bit of a redneck.”
Silence. Wrong thing to say there, buckaroo.
“…uh, just how redneck?”
“I loathe Trump if that’s what you’re getting at.”
“Oh, whew! Just checking, can’t be too careful these days.”
tl;dr: We need to get the word out to these young men, “This crap you’re watching is anathema to getting laid.”
I cannot emphasize enough to men: nobody wants to hear how overarmed someone pursuing them is.
But seriously, the right wing loves to imply that “real men” are right wing and that women want a “real man”. And the left can’t really counter the first part because “real man” is a concept rooted in patriarchal expectations and is partly associated with real jackasses. But the second part we only have an unsatisfying answer for: that women are people and all want different things.
But they’re training young men to struggle romantically and be pissed about it without the emotional intelligence to deal with that anger. Oh and they’re encouraging those men to buy guns and to take offense at women being scared of men. That’s not how you make your fans into happy husbands and fathers who credit you for setting them on the path to that. It’s how you make them into suicide terrorists, it’s far closer to what Al Quadra did than what loving fathers do.
The few women in that scene are strictly for the alphas! Your beta ass won’t even get scraps.
The reality is that in humans, there’s no such thing as alphas and betas. The ethology that claimed that’s how wolves organize their societies, and that meme-level social darwinists tried to apply to people, was wrong too.
Pair that with white males feeling entitled to things (mostly money, women, and even friends) and society currently being set up to keep them away from those things. They’re rightfully angry, it’s just their anger is being directed at the wrong things.
Society isn’t set up to keep them away from anything: that’s paranoid rationalization. They’re just shit at relating to people and lack discipline and intelligence. Once you make the empowering realization that the world doesn’t owe you a fucking thing, you have a realistic starting point. Blaming other people, or “society,” is just an excuse for inaction.
Look at 99% of media before 2001 AD. White male hero. Star Trek TOS was a giant ground breaker showing Uhura, but all the real critical leaders were males. Think on this; the James Bond movie Thunderball has a scene that’s pretty much rape; they were selling little kids’ toys based on that movie. There’s a John Wayne movie where Wayne throws someone else’s kid into a river to teach the boy how to get over his fear of water.
This is what these young men and their fathers consume. And Trump plays to that. He’s a macho hero who plays by his own rules and doesn’t take crap from anyone.
Muhammed Ali did more in real life than Clint Eastwood ever did in all his movies put together; guess which one these folks admire?
And Trump plays to that. He’s a macho hero who plays by his own rules and doesn’t take crap from anyone.
Except he’s not. He’s a lard-assed con artist, appearance-obsessed but ridiculous: fake hair, fake tan, trying to exaggerate his height and hide his obesity, a bully, a coward, a liar, and anyone who’s seen the video of him grovelling in Putin’s presence wouldn’t say he doesn’t take crap from anyone. He’s a servile, fawning toady who would have been nothing without his daddy’s money. If this society were a meritocracy, he’d be pounding farts out of shirttails in a steam laundry in New Jersey, if he could be employed at all.
You know it and I know it, now try to explain it to them.
I’m a zoomed so I can confirm you completely failed to bring up any media relevant to Gen Z, and Star Trek TOS and Ali are closer than Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, and Bond.
No offense, but I’d safely bet maybe 0.1% of current generation young men have watched any of those movies. This article is primarily talking about younger Gen Z folks (18-30), so people born 1994-2006. These males specifically consume idiot social media personalities vs old school macho man movies from the 50s and 60s.
^ This. I think even older people have scaled back on watching such fare.
This is what these young men and their fathers consume. And Trump plays to that. He’s a macho hero who plays by his own rules and doesn’t take crap from anyone.
How the fuck do they think Trump is macho?
Because Andrew Tate, Ben Shapiro, and Jordan Peterson tell them Trump is macho and the young men don’t know any better. They think these morons are authority figures
Which I also don’t get. Those guys don’t seem macho or cool either.
Most of us do not deserve the orange monster. Most of us are actually good people who are just trying to survive. Don’t wish harm on the whole country because a bunch of assholes use a shit electoral college system to their advantage.
You’re not paying enough attention if you think Trump winning means “too bad the rest of the world will feel the consequences.” Germany just elected their first far right government since WWII, France had a massive right wing that is now in the EU council, Austria… well they keep making shitty right wing choices, down into South America Argentina shifted right, and other countries continue to do so as well. We’re not special or alone in this.
Germany just elected their first far right government since WWII
In one German state, Thuringia. That’s the German equivalent of Mississippi. It’s bad, but not bad on the national level yet. In France, the FN (the extreme-right party) lost in the run-off, though their leader has been pretending to be less of a jackbooted thug than her father, the previous FN leader.
You’re correct that the return of fascism is a global problem. If something were to happen to Putin, many of those rightwing parties would collapse back into the squabbling gangs of hooligans and racist goons they were before they started getting Russian advice, funding and help from troll farms. That’s why Russian propaganda outlets like RT and Sputnik have been so anti-Harris. They know Trump will sell out Ukraine and gut NATO, and that’s the only way Putin can keep his job and his head.
Germany just elected their first far right government since WWII,
This is very misleading
My source is DW. Link
It would’ve been less misleading for you too to specify that it was state elections
He does have an interest in young girls at heart though… Just like his good friend Jeff Epstein, “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy, He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
Can you link that quote?
https://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/
It’s part way into it as the article is about Epstein not Trump, but it’s exactly as they wrote it.
Thanks. Damn, he just has so little control, he’ll say almost anything. It’s not exactly encriminating but leaves little doubt that Drumpf knew exactly what was going on, as if we didn’t know he participated.
Trump did very little for anyone. Unless you’re rich.
and even then he did it for himself in the long run.
Even then it’s not like it was intentional. He only did it for himself, it’s just that other rich people also coincidentally benefited.
The article completely missed the core reason for young men to vote for Trump. It’s ending DEI initiatives.
That’s a single issue for some of my conservative friends. The D’s will never get their vote.
In the UK the Conservative party decided to get rid of DEI initiatives in education. When?
When the minority specifically recommended to be targeted for support became poor/working class white boys.
Conservatives will go out of their way to harm the working class because as long as things are going badly for them they’ll be angry enough to vote for the ones with dog whistles pretending it’s someone else’s fault.
It’s ending DEI initiatives.
Name the “endless DEI initiatives” that Harris has been promoting in her platform.
Most of the DEI that people encounter in real life originates from their workplaces. It’s being pushed for marketing reasons, or because it’s the only way the employer can recruit qualified staff. It’s the free market in action. And in my experience, it’s the marginal performers who are adversely impacted. The people who are good at their jobs keep their jobs, or quickly find another.
I’m a hiring manager, have been for a very long time. I’ve got two recruiting campaigns going right now, The field of applicants we interviewed was highly diverse. And the last two offer letters I’ve sent out were to middle-aged white men. That’s because they were the best candidates. And you know what? The DEI Police are not going to come and kick down my front door at 3 AM because of my hiring decisions. DEI is a nonexistent problem, just as “woke,” just as the Great Replacement lies, just as the anti-trans hysteria is. The reality is that, if you’re not getting offers or someone is being promoted ahead of you, it’s because your management think they’ll do better than you. Suck less and you’ll do better. Nobody in my job assesses me based on DEI compliance. But if I hire people who wash out because they can’t do the job, or if I can’t retain high performers, my ass is on the line.
And just to declare my own perspective: I’m an able-bodied older white male myself.
The DEI Police are not going to come and kick down my front door at 3 AM because of my hiring decisions.
Well…I’ve seen that happen. We had a black guy working for one of my previous employers and no one was really sure what he did. Ends up he was working his second job most days.
When said employer found out and fired him, he walked out with a 6 figure discrimination settlement. It was cheaper to settle than fight.
That cost a couple unrelated people their jobs due to budget.
I’m not pro or anti DEI. I’ve seen it used for good, and I’ve seen it abused.
A spectacular victory for the billionaire class that your friends are focused on the one black kid who gets a leg up and not the legions of white kids who got ahead through their parents’ donations and legacy admissions.
LBJ once said: “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” Clearly, 60 years on, it’s still true.
“But what about rich white kids”
Yeah, a great argument…
Scared little boys need a daddy
Alternatively, and perhaps more plausibly - people who are new to politics fall for a populist.
I’m a bit scared of where the world is going, but it doesn’t make me vote a local populist. One of the things that helps me recognize a scammer from distance - 3 decades of experience with garden variety politics.
My take is that they vote for him because he is angry. These young men are largely angry and have had media of all sorts telling them that they should be. They don’t want someone telling them how they will boost the middle class and have equitable tax. They want someone who says they will burn every problem to the ground and break things. They want someone screaming at someone to blame.
Why we have a huge chunk of young men desperatly angry is a choose your own adventure of societal issues where we have provided almost no healthy outlet for healthy aggression or the physicality that comes with being a young man. Everyone is free to come up with their own reasons, but for me it is the lack of outlet or the feeling of societial participation for young men.
Whatever the reason, a culture who sweeps the problems of frustrated young men under the rug for long enough I feel will live to regret it.
Cough Arab Spring cough
These young men are largely angry and have had media of all sorts telling them that they should be.
They’ve had two decades of socio-economic bedlam. Its not like people are just angry for no reason. Sucks out there to be a Zoomer during one of the most on-paper rapid increases in domestic prosperity, while your demographic is entirely cut out of the gains but expected to assume all the costs.
Trump’s selling snake oil. But he’s got a target rich environment of suckers precisely because the labor movement in this country has been abandoned by both parties and the Democrats have (correctly) identified this group as the most expensive to turn out during election season so not worth the effort.
If you’re going hard in the paint for the culture war, you’re better off aiming for middle aged women. They vote. They donate. They organize. And they stay loyal to their party. Young men are only good for the next hype cycle before they give up or lose interest. The economy for Zoomers isn’t looking much better in the next four years, so Dems can come back around for them after Trump is gone.
Whatever the reason, a culture who sweeps the problems of frustrated young men under the rug for long enough I feel will live to regret it.
These aren’t problems unique to young men. They’re structural and societal. Young men are just the demographic that produces the most immediate feedback and engagement. And the current GOP is entirely embedded in the social media hype cycle, so they’re as along-for-the-ride as their turnout target.
The real people profiting off this mess aren’t Republicans, but the social media advertising market who actually get to generate revenue off the bad decisions of deluded young people.
Just curious, have you ever watched the Woodstock 99 documentary?
A long while ago.
Is their interest racism? Because he’s got that covered.
If theyre angry and frustrated then yes, identifying a scapegoat is a great way to manipulate them
Every gen Z kid I know is having an issue trying to pick a pro-Palestine candidate. They seem to dislike Biden more than Harris, but I have never heard of trump support. I’m sure some amount of gen Z are trumpers but they are a minority, saying young male voters are “flocking” to trump is pretty silly. “There are literally dozens of us!”
I hate to say this, but you’re probably living in a bit of a bubble. I know I was.
A lot of men, across all age ranges, tend to lean fascist. There’s a lot of reasons for this, but the core problem is that progressive neoliberalism does a terrible job speaking to cis-het male anxieties, while fascism welcomes them with open arms.
It’s all bullshit, of course, but at least they’re being heard.
Progressive politicians really need to let the 1990s go. Third-way triangulation worked great then, but it’s ineffective now.
progressive neoliberalism does a terrible job speaking to cis-het male anxieties
Terrible is a bit of an understatement. Men complain about bleak social and economic prospects only to be meet with insults that go right to the metaphorical jugular of every mans ego.
I’d go a step further than that. It’s not all bullshit.
If right at the moment that young men are starting to figure out, hey it’s important to make some money, it’s important not to be a coward, I think I’m gonna start working out and waking up early and keeping my house clean, hey I think at least some of these people I see who are downtrodden by life are at least partially responsible for their own situation and problems and I don’t wanna be that way… if right at that exact moment all the left has to offer them is getting in their face and saying NO NO NO, FUCK YOU THAT’S ALL WRONG TRANS RIGHTS VEGAN CAT FOOD FUCK YOU ARARGBGLGLLGLGL then they’re not gonna wanna join with the left. The left is going to seem stupid and crazy to them, and for a certain segment of the left, they’ll have a point about that.
Trump like all fascism is a malicious lie which will bring them only misery. But just being conservative (like authentic conservatism) in your viewpoint isn’t automatically wrong or “the enemy.”
Except the left isn’t saying that. A handful of people are, but it’s mostly a right-wing caricature of the left.
You should educate them on the dangers of single-issue voting. Pro-life has kept the Republican Party afloat for decades.
I’ve thought very hard about doing this. I used to be the same way and have changed my thinking. The problem is I don’t think I can properly articulate this because 1. I am still trying to swallow that pill 2. I would just feel like a hypocrite so I wouldn’t be able to deliver properly.
I do encourage others who do have the capability to try to point out the issues with single-issue voting.
The unfortunate truth is that neither Harris nor Trump is good for Palestinians, however there’s certainty that Trump will be worse. Voting third-party with enough momentum may change things over a long period of time, but that won’t help Palestinians now.
So if it’s a given that either Harris or Trump will be President next year, it’s either about weighing the other important issues, or accepting the candidate that hasn’t called for the eradication of Palestinians after removing restrictions on Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory.
So kind of just accept genocide is the only option.
Oh okay, yea I guess I can just keep living my life as long as people I care about aren’t being eradicated.
I didn’t suggest accepting genocide. I said that’s it’s a fact that either Harris or Trump will be President next year. Your acceptance of that fact does not change its inevitably.
You do, however, have the ability to prevent Trump from encouraging the eradication of Palestinians.
Okay, so prevent Trump from eradicating the Palestinians as opposed to just accepting the mere genocide that Kamala will allow and fund.
I guess I don’t understand the difference between eradication and genocide.
You’re probably right. At least with Kamala there will be a few Palestinians left at least?
In this case, the genocide you’re referring to is eradication. The difference isn’t between eradication and genocide. It’s between supporting Israel’s defense or funding and encouraging eradication while repealing laws that prevent them from settling on Palestinian territory.
This is a great example where single issue voting leads you. There’s no understanding that it may not be that simple, no understanding that there’s a huge range of possible actions different than yours and NOT “both the same”, no understanding that there are many issues with huge impact on the world not just the one you feel most strongly about.
This is a great example of you dismissing someone as being emotional when we are talking about fucking genocide. It’s fucking genocide dude. Get off your high horse and stop defending fucking genocide. This is not about an issue I feel strongly about, you creep.
This is about genocide.
I think a lot of it is because there’s so many more well-funded right-wing influencers/grifters than genuine liberal or left-wing influencers. It’s much more profitable to take advantage of young men’s anxieties and insecurities (to sell fungus pills, get-rich-quick plans, or whatever), than to genuinely discuss things from a liberal or especially left-wing perspective.
Its a cliche but they also promise easy answers to hard questions, blame others for problems they caused themselves or at least did nothing to get out of. The old tell 'em what they want to hear rather than what they need to hear.
