• kitnaht@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Nobody cares. Nobody wants a progressive candidate, everyone wants a right-lite candidate, which Biden is. We’ve allowed corporations to completely take over our nation, and there is no non-violent way to bring it back.

      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        That’s not what the last 25 years of elections tell us.

        When Democrats run on a progressive, or at least apparently progressive platform, they win, even if that’s not how they ultimately govern (Obama 08, 12; Biden 20). Biden’s 2020 platform was a lift and shift of every single one of Bernie’s policy positions: His platform was Biden in name only. Obama’s was also highly progressive. I’d put Gore in here too for a half point, considering that was basically a stolen election (SC decided Floridians voters didn’t matter), and he ran almost competently on climate change; he won the popular vote and the EC, but the SC decided that wasn’t relevant.

        When they run center right candidates (Kerry 04, Hillary 16) and platforms, they lose.

        Voters who show up and get Democrats elected into office have shown one thing:

        Progressive candidates and platforms win you elections.

        So this:

        Nobody wants a progressive candidate

        Is just a demonstrably false statement, easily rebutted by even a cursory glance at history.

        • kitnaht@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          If that were true, they’d be doing it. It’s as simple as that. A whole team of people who know far more than you are I, have decided you are wrong. I’ll just leave it at that. I wholly disagree that Biden or Obamas platforms were progressive at all.

          • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            they’d be doing it

            Who would be doing what? Biden took his platform far to the left in 2020 and it got him enough of Bernies collation to get him elected. Obama ran on healthcare and holding banks accountable.

            And also…

            A whole team of people who know far more than you are I,

            No they fucking don’t. These are the same consultants that advised Hillary to prop up Trump in the primaries.

            The fact is that if you are a Democrat running for President, at least giving lip service to progressive polices gets you elected. There is no requirement you govern that way once elected, but if you don’t at least entertain the Progressive vote as a Democrat, you don’t win the presidency.

      • blazera@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Bidens pretty likely to lose the election because people dont want him. He only stands a chance by virtue of how much more those same people dont want Trump.

        People want a progressive government but are stuck in a self fulfilling prediction that progressive candidates cant win.

        • kitnaht@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          People don’t want a progressive government. They (at best) want a government that returns to the time just before Citizens united. They want to stop back-sliding. But they aren’t thinking about “progress” in any way that I understand progress.

          • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Yeah this is just a non-sense statement with no grounding in reality.

            What Presidential election have Democrats won without a progressive candidate or platform in the past 25 years?

            • kitnaht@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Uh, Obama, Biden, every democratic president literally in the past 25 years.

              Do you think Obama was a progressive? If so, I got some news for you. The overton window has shifted, and every Democrat president in the last 25 years has been Right-lite.

              Actual progressive candidates have no chance in these races. They’re seen as “extremists” now.

              I dare ANY candidate now to campaign on a $25/hr minimum wage. They’ll get absolutely liquified by the media.

              • distantsounds@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                Do remember the Affordable Healthcare Act? Obama pushed for national healthcare and was ultimately quashed. That was a progressive push. I would not consider Obama progressive, but he sure as hell was the most progressive president since Carter. Biden is a regressive chump that suits the DNC’s interests

                • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  Biden is a regressive chump

                  Biden has governerned as a regressive chump, but the DNC platform of 2020 was the most progressive platform for any major political party, pretty much since Roosevelt. Biden’s 2020 campaign was one of the most progressive in US history, from a policy perspective.

                  • distantsounds@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    I don’t disagree with any of that. He got to play spoiler for the Bernie camp again, took his platform and kneecapped it. As is tradition

                • kitnaht@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  Then we don’t disagree. Having 1-2 progressive stances does not mean you’re a progressive candidate.

              • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                They may have governed to the right, but that’s not what got them elected. Both of those candidates campaigned as progressives, or adopted highly progressive platforms.

                You know. Campaigning. The part where you get elected?

                And the two Democrats who campaigned to the center right, Hillary and Kerry, both lost their elections.

                To be clear: We’re talking about campaigning right now, not governance.

                • kitnaht@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  That’s exactly what got them elected. They took moderate stances on things. They didn’t campaign on progressive ideas at ALL. The last progressive candidate we saw was Bernie, and he was deemed too extreme.

                  • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    No, they didn’t. Not at all. You are just re-writing history to fit your narrative.

                    Obama ran on holding wall street accountable (he didn’t) and on fixing healthcare/

                    Biden xeroxed Bernies entire platform. Like verbatim.