Israel is set to hear whether the UN's top court will order it to end its military offensive in Gaza during a case filed by South Africa accusing Israel of genocide.
Over 1/3 of voters say it’s genocide. Which party do you think they will skew towards? Given that the last election was pretty close it doesn’t look great.
Go back a few pages and see that only 2% of voters consider Israel the most important issue. Next to nobody is going to base their voting decision on Biden’s Israel policy.
Not the most important doesn’t mean “not important” though. The idea that someone will be like “well you know I don’t approve of my tax money being used to commit a genocide but man did he help bring down inflation” is quite funny to me.
I would guess you are right. What worries me is that you’re wrong and Trump wins again, is even worse for Palestinians and literally everyone else as well. I’m not saying it’s a logical thing to do but people are not always logical. And what does Biden gain again?
Because you can never be too careful. Yes, it’s almost certainly not a problem, but don’t tempt fate. Biden is the best choice by a country mile, for everyone involved. This doesn’t mean he’s perfect, he most certainly isn’t, but neither is any other politician in all of human history. Vote for the least flawed of the leading two candidates in your system. Doing anything else - third party, abstaining - only benefits fascists.
Like I said to the other user, only 2% of voters consider Israel the most important issue. It’s not gonna swing 80k people against a candidate as controversial as Trump.
I am also really not buying that genocide accusation (and shouting the word doesn’t help your case). It doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.
So far, percentage-wise Israel has killed fewer Palestinians in Gaza than Hamas did in the communities they invaded. This doesn’t bring any life back and every innocent person killed remains a tragedy, but it is important to see the whole picture.
Hamas terrorists killed ten percent of the population of these small kibbutzes within a day, whereas Israel killed 1.2% of the people in Gaza over the course of more than three months (this 1.2% number includes Hamas fighters - it’s not just civilians). Keep in mind that Hamas only had access to small arms and drones for the massacres they committed, yet they caused significantly more deaths percentage-wise. To me at least, this signifies a massive difference in both intent and conduct. Israel, with its powerful weaponry, could have killed far more Palestinians if they actually wanted to, if this was their actual intent. They are, in terms of military capabilities, entirely capable of killing every last man, woman and child in Gaza within a few weeks at most (or a few seconds, if they don’t mind breathing in some fallout). Yet they clearly didn’t.
If genocide really was their intent, then why are they still issuing at the very least some warnings to civilians? Why did they protect an evacuation corridor with their lives, against Hamas attacks on both IDF soldiers and the civilians trying to flee? This doesn’t make any sense.
The long-term genocide accusation makes even less sense. Since 1960, the Palestinian population as increased almost five times - compared to four times the Israeli population. Before this war, Palestinians had a life expectancy that was three years above the average for Arab nations. Neither high birth rates nor high life expectancy are typical of any actual genocide in history.
The very worst one can accuse Israel as a country of is that some politicians in the government coalition are running their mouths wild with revenge fantasies against the entire Palestinian people for the October 7 attack. They should be punished for it, at the very least lose their jobs and ideally their freedom, but the conduct of the IDF as a whole does thankfully not reflect the rhetoric of these politicians. That’s not to say that the IDF is perfect, far from it. It is almost a certainty that individual units have committed atrocities. This is an unfortunate reality of war, similar to how e.g. ISAF soldiers have committed atrocities in Afghanistan, even though their mission as a whole was most certainly not. I do believe that the IDF is no different in this regard, that atrocities are the exception, not the rule. The IDF’s mission in Gaza is to free hostages and destroy Hamas capability of both ruling the strip and attacking Israel. It is perfectly fine to discuss how this army goes about achieving this goal and how it should best proceed, but it is not fine to throw, despite a complete absence of evidence, the accusation at it that their actual mission is to eradicate all Palestinians.
Point out to me a single line in the judgement where they condemned Israel for genocidal actions, or even directly stated that Israel was pursuing genocidal actions. It’s not there.
Point out to me a single line in the judgement where they condemned Germany for genocidal actions, or even directly stated that Germany was pursuing genocidal actions. It’s not there.
So the Holocaust never happened because the International Court of Justice never ruled it a genocide?
(A) You do know the ICJ didn’t exist during the Holocaust, right? They can’t rule on the actions of states that aren’t party to the ICJ, which by the fundamental nature of how time works includes Nazi Germany.
(B) The fact that the ICJ didn’t declare it a genocide was simply a rebuttal to your unfounded fictitious assertion that they did. How you interpreted that as a statement that genocide doesn’t exist without the ICJ is beyond me.
The vast majority of American voters support Israel in this war and do not consider what Israel is doing a genocide (55ff.):
https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/HHP_Jan24_KeyResults.pdf
I think you fell into the common trap of believing that your particular filter bubble is representative of the general consensus.
Over 1/3 of voters say it’s genocide. Which party do you think they will skew towards? Given that the last election was pretty close it doesn’t look great.
Go back a few pages and see that only 2% of voters consider Israel the most important issue. Next to nobody is going to base their voting decision on Biden’s Israel policy.
Not the most important doesn’t mean “not important” though. The idea that someone will be like “well you know I don’t approve of my tax money being used to commit a genocide but man did he help bring down inflation” is quite funny to me.
I would guess you are right. What worries me is that you’re wrong and Trump wins again, is even worse for Palestinians and literally everyone else as well. I’m not saying it’s a logical thing to do but people are not always logical. And what does Biden gain again?
It’s not a problem that we’re trying to get him to fail then. Surely only 2% of people won’t make any difference so why are you trying to stop us?
Because you can never be too careful. Yes, it’s almost certainly not a problem, but don’t tempt fate. Biden is the best choice by a country mile, for everyone involved. This doesn’t mean he’s perfect, he most certainly isn’t, but neither is any other politician in all of human history. Vote for the least flawed of the leading two candidates in your system. Doing anything else - third party, abstaining - only benefits fascists.
I’m not tempting fate, I am deliberately trying to make sure we get what we deserve for supporting a genocide supporting and enabling president.
Maybe trump 2 will make people realize that supporting genocide won’t help you win an election.
Maybe you guys will think twice before supporting genocide again.
You guys love to watch innocent people burn and die?
Time to bring that shit home to roost!
Burning the house down instead of cleaning up your room has never been a viable strategy.
Nor has just pointing out that your brother’s room is even messier
It is when you intend to rebuild from scratch.
What exactly are you hoping for, I’m genuinely curious. The collapse of the American state, violent revolution, a civil war?
I bet there are enough of us that’s are against genocide that we can make him fail the reelection
And then you get Trump. Ever looked up his Israel policy? Got any other brilliant ideas?
Maybe just do the right thing. Clinton lost because of 80,000 votes from 3 states. You don’t think that can happen again because of a genocide ?
Like I said to the other user, only 2% of voters consider Israel the most important issue. It’s not gonna swing 80k people against a candidate as controversial as Trump.
I am also really not buying that genocide accusation (and shouting the word doesn’t help your case). It doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.
So far, percentage-wise Israel has killed fewer Palestinians in Gaza than Hamas did in the communities they invaded. This doesn’t bring any life back and every innocent person killed remains a tragedy, but it is important to see the whole picture.
Hamas terrorists killed ten percent of the population of these small kibbutzes within a day, whereas Israel killed 1.2% of the people in Gaza over the course of more than three months (this 1.2% number includes Hamas fighters - it’s not just civilians). Keep in mind that Hamas only had access to small arms and drones for the massacres they committed, yet they caused significantly more deaths percentage-wise. To me at least, this signifies a massive difference in both intent and conduct. Israel, with its powerful weaponry, could have killed far more Palestinians if they actually wanted to, if this was their actual intent. They are, in terms of military capabilities, entirely capable of killing every last man, woman and child in Gaza within a few weeks at most (or a few seconds, if they don’t mind breathing in some fallout). Yet they clearly didn’t.
If genocide really was their intent, then why are they still issuing at the very least some warnings to civilians? Why did they protect an evacuation corridor with their lives, against Hamas attacks on both IDF soldiers and the civilians trying to flee? This doesn’t make any sense.
The long-term genocide accusation makes even less sense. Since 1960, the Palestinian population as increased almost five times - compared to four times the Israeli population. Before this war, Palestinians had a life expectancy that was three years above the average for Arab nations. Neither high birth rates nor high life expectancy are typical of any actual genocide in history.
The very worst one can accuse Israel as a country of is that some politicians in the government coalition are running their mouths wild with revenge fantasies against the entire Palestinian people for the October 7 attack. They should be punished for it, at the very least lose their jobs and ideally their freedom, but the conduct of the IDF as a whole does thankfully not reflect the rhetoric of these politicians. That’s not to say that the IDF is perfect, far from it. It is almost a certainty that individual units have committed atrocities. This is an unfortunate reality of war, similar to how e.g. ISAF soldiers have committed atrocities in Afghanistan, even though their mission as a whole was most certainly not. I do believe that the IDF is no different in this regard, that atrocities are the exception, not the rule. The IDF’s mission in Gaza is to free hostages and destroy Hamas capability of both ruling the strip and attacking Israel. It is perfectly fine to discuss how this army goes about achieving this goal and how it should best proceed, but it is not fine to throw, despite a complete absence of evidence, the accusation at it that their actual mission is to eradicate all Palestinians.
Wait. You’re in a post about the International Court of Justice condemning Israel for genocidal actions and pretending that it’s not a genocide? Really? Really? Really? Even Jewish Holocaust and genocide scholars are calling it a “textbook case of genocide.
I suppose you think the Iraq war found yellow cake uranium and mobile anthrax trucks. Really?
Point out to me a single line in the judgement where they condemned Israel for genocidal actions, or even directly stated that Israel was pursuing genocidal actions. It’s not there.
So the Holocaust never happened because the International Court of Justice never ruled it a genocide?
(A) You do know the ICJ didn’t exist during the Holocaust, right? They can’t rule on the actions of states that aren’t party to the ICJ, which by the fundamental nature of how time works includes Nazi Germany.
(B) The fact that the ICJ didn’t declare it a genocide was simply a rebuttal to your unfounded fictitious assertion that they did. How you interpreted that as a statement that genocide doesn’t exist without the ICJ is beyond me.
Tell me something, how many genocides did that stupid motherfucker support?
My guy, did you forget how COVID killed over a million Americans while Trump did nothing?
I’d rather someone who does nothing for good rather than someone who does a ton for evil.
Trump is inept. Biden tricked us just like Fetterman