One is a functional, modern society. The other is the united states.
…one’s a peter gabriel album and the other’s guns ‘n’ roses…
Removed by mod
It you think USA public opinion isn’t extremely heavily guided and controlled, then I can only compare you to a fish that doesn’t know what water is.
I’m European, criticising our government here in Belgium is our national sport.
So? Your public opinion is still heavily guided and controlled.
And they don’t even take it further than “criticisms”, which is somehow confused for “disagreeing with the presentation style” or “wishing the quiet part to be kept quiet”. When they do, it doesn’t change anything materially.
“Nobody protests like the French do” (which applies to Belgians as well) is one of the griftiest scams ever sold.
Omg, they are talking about you!
“Lemmy, an open-source social media platform, is not explicitly banned in China, but its usage and accessibility can be subject to censorship and restrictions due to the country’s strict internet regulations. The platform operates on the ActivityPub protocol, which allows for decentralized communication between different servers. However, there have been concerns raised about certain instances of Lemmy, such as Lemmy.ml, where administrators have been accused of being pro-Chinese government and actively censoring critical comments. This can affect the content and discussions available on those specific instances, but it does not necessarily reflect the entire Lemmy network. Users in China may face difficulties accessing certain instances or content due to the Great Firewall and other censorship measures .”
There are Marxists on Lemmy, articles written by liberals that are afraid of that or want to drum up anti-Lemmy sentiment don’t really form an argument for anything against what people here are saying.
Love unsourced quotes
Love random links that don’t contain the quote
That’s why I’m here. I do like the style of VRT in flanders. They allow everyone to come there. All political parties.
Yesterday they showed the earthquake that reached Bangkok. The last few days they showed the protests in Istanbul.
But, I haven’t heard anything about the protests in Jakarta. Nothing about how a military person has become the new president in Indonesia.
“Prabowo Subianto Djojohadikusumo (EYD: Joyohadikusumo; born 17 October 1951) is an Indonesian politician, businessman, and retired army general serving as the eighth president of Indonesia since 2024.”
For some reason this doesn’t seem to be important.
And that’s why I enjoy social media without a centralised authority.
China heavily controls their population. Just what it is.
Is it bad? Singapore do it, and west let them
Girl at work tried to use DeepSeek so I showed her some questions and then asked the same questions on le chat mistral.
A little bit of a different answer 😁
Are you talking about Tiananmen Square?
Chinese companies own 80% of cobalt in Congo. They use this to dominate the battery market
Source?
They subsidise EV and phone companies. So that I get those items on the back of Chinese tax payers.
If they are fine then that is fine
I showed tank man, just literally no answer. But she asked about how Turkish Uyghurs were treated (she’s Turkish diaspora). Then it showed some very different answer than le chat mistral.
Basically the answer on DeepSeek is something you guys here would copy paste lol
I showed tank man, just literally no answer. But she asked about how Turkish Uyghurs were treated (she’s Turkish diaspora). Then it showed some very different answer than le chat mistral.
Okay. And what do you want the Chinese people to do?
Basically the answer on DeepSeek is something you guys here would copy paste lol
You’re laughing at the wrong person. I’m not a socialist
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/chinas-cobalt-supply-dominance-by-2030/
Okay I misread about the 80% figure. It’s more about 50%. They just control 80% of the output through majority stakes.
But Chinese companies are going after all the cobalt in the world. It’s their industry that they want to shine in.
“Singapore does it”, my boss worked there and told me this week multiple times that Singaporeans are the most selfish ego centered people he has ever met. My wife grew up in Bintan, and she agrees. They are basically the Americans of south east Asia.
The subsidies are trickle down economics, heavily criticised by socialists.
Although income inequality is dropping in china. 0,35 Gini. In USA it’s 0,41. But here in the EU, it’s 0,29.
And where I live, it’s 0,26.
We’re still the most socialist.
Okay I misread about the 80% figure. It’s more about 50%.
Be careful next time
It’s their industry that they want to shine in.
That is normal. USA does it too, don’t you think?
“Singapore does it”, my boss worked there and told me this week multiple times that Singaporeans are the most selfish ego centered people he has ever met. My wife grew up in Bintan, and she agrees. They are basically the Americans of south east Asia.
Why are you talking about your boss and your wife? We’re talking about Singapore which also heavily control their population
The subsidies are trickle down economics, heavily criticised by socialists.
Source?
Although income inequality is dropping in china. 0,35 Gini. In USA it’s 0,41. But here in the EU, it’s 0,29.
We’re still the most socialist.
Socialism is more than income
And thanks for links
Removed by mod
And you’re allowed to do it because we allow opposition. That’s democracy.
It’s absolutely crazy how brainwashed westerners are to believe that Democracy is when the people can’t control policy, but they’re allowed to impotently post criticism of it online.
Impotently?
Yeah, dang autocorrect
Removed by mod
When I say that china is just another capitalist nation, then your whataboutism to other capitalist nations does not defend china
It proves my point.
I am not interested in defending China. I want you to know that West is not holy
China heavily guides public opinion, there’s no opposition allowed.
It is good then. Many oppositions only care about themselves
So the opposition, ml instance, only cares about themselves and thus should be heavily censored?
I thought we were here on Lemmy so that we could choose what content we see and which content we want to upload.
I said “many oppositions only care about themselves” not “all oppositions only care about themselves”
Socialism is not “lower Gini coefficient.” Socialism is a Mode of Production chategorized by public ownership being the principle aspect of the economy, unike Capitalism where the reverse is true. Large firms and key industries are firmly publicly owned in China, while the private sector covers small industry and self-proprietors. Key industries, like steel and banking, are near entirely state owned. In Belgium, this is not the case, in fact it’s quite the opposite.
This is why China is developing and improving key metrics at a much faster rate than dying western Capitalist countries. Adopting a Marxist understanding of economics allows better analysis of how to improve economies and use that for the benefit of all.
“Chinese democracy”
Edit: it’s clear that the majority of those in this community aren’t interested in living in a world where words have meaning, but for the minority, I offer this recent report from Varieties of Democracy that unsurprisingly classifies China as a “closed autocracy” because it:
- Has no multiparty elections for the executive
- Lacks fundamental democratic components such as freedom of expression, freedom of association, and free & fair elections
Interestingly, Canada is not listed in the “liberal democracies” category, since we lack judicial and legislative constraints on the executive.
Also, the US stands to lose its democracy rating in next year’s report, so maybe then China will be as “democratic” as the US.
Yes.
What’s that you were saying there western ignoramus?
- https://jasonhickel.substack.com/p/studies-show-strong-public-support
- https://www.newsweek.com/most-china-call-their-nation-democracy-most-us-say-america-isnt-1711176
- https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2021/0218/Vilified-abroad-popular-at-home-China-s-Communist-Party-at-100
- https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-06-26/which-nations-are-democracies-some-citizens-might-disagree
- https://web.archive.org/web/20230511041927/https://6389062.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/6389062/Canva images/Democracy Perception Index 2023.pdf
- https://www.tbsnews.net/world/china-more-democratic-america-say-people-98686
- https://web.archive.org/web/20201229132410/https://en.news-front.info/2020/06/27/studies-have-shown-that-china-is-more-democratic-than-the-united-states-russia-is-nearby-and-ukraine-is-at-the-bottom/
Well if we’re going to agree to live in a world where words don’t have meanings anymore, then sure, China’s a “democracy”.
If however we want to have an adult conversation about it, then we need to agree on the meaning of words, and “democracy” is literally “rule by the people”. Given this (admittedly broad and forgiving) definition, China with its autocratic , centralised rule by a one-party government for which the public has no peaceful means of deposing is objectively not a democracy.
This isn’t to say that the US is much better of course, but you don’t do yourself any favours by measuring yourself against the dumbest kid in the class.
They’re both terrible, though at least the US has free(ish) and fair(ish) elections.
If however we want to have an adult conversation about it, then we need to agree on the meaning of words, and “democracy” is literally “rule by the people”.
This “adult” conversation is coming from a lifetime of Cold War I & Cold War II anti-communist propaganda. You’re not engaging with the material presented; you’re just repeating your preconceptions.
They’re both terrible, though at least the US has free(ish) and fair(ish) elections.
It’s demonstrably false that they’re even very -ish. The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
The “material” presented was a series of articles citing the same study that polled the citizens of the US and China to ask if they thought their government was democratic. This does not change the meaning of the word, but rather outlines the general ignorance of those using it.
You make an excellent point about the US system, though I think we agree that the US is a shit model for democracy regardless.
This does not change the meaning of the word, but rather outlines the general ignorance of those using it.
I always expect chauvinism from white Canadians talking about democracy but I always hope y’all will be self aware enough to not flaunt it in the middle of your Concerns™.
Bourgeois democracy is no democracy at all, thank fuck they don’t want to adopt it more closely. The Chinese people would have already been sold out by politicians in the pocket of big corporations, and then westerners would decry how it’s just one of those inevitable things but at least they have their freedom.
In case you’re ever actually interested in learning something instead of concern trolling: https://redsails.org/xi-on-democracy/
Democracy is about fulfilling the will of the people and making sure their needs are met. It is more about having a direct impact on policy, than selecting from 2 pre-approved candidates. More people in China feel they have an impact on policy than US citizens feel, and over 90% of Chinese citizens support their government.
If the vast majority of people in a country are happy enough with their input in government to call it “democratic” that’s a pretty good sign it’s a democracy. But sure, it’s everyone else who’s making words meaningless
I think you’re conflating “happy people” with “people living under a democratic system of government”. These are not necessarily the same thing.
No they’re not, the studies I linked you above, which you obviously didn’t read, clearly shows that people in China see their country as being democratic.
You’re being rather unreasonable here, responding to other threads, making out of context comments, “narrating” and referring to me as a “wasp”. I’m happy to have a civil conversation with you on this one day, but it’s clear that you’re not ready for that yet. I’m out.
I’m merely pointing out the fact that you’re spewing nonsense here. There’s no point having a conversation with somebody who’s aggressively ignorant. All people such as yourself do is waste everyone’s time. It’s just lazy trolling. If you cared about the subject then you’d spend the time to educate yourself on it first before stating opinions. No investigation, no right to speak. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Provided with overwhelming evidence showing that China is not in fact autocratic our wasp double down.
The us is a shithole, and china is a different shithole. Democracy has nothing to do with either shithole.
Over 90% of Chinese citizens support their government, less than half of USians do. The majority of Chinese citizens believe they have a democratic impact on government policy, the same cannot be said of the US. China is rapidly developing and directly combatting poverty, the US is not. China is focused on trade, and maintains minimal overseas millitary presence, the US has 800 millitary bases all over the globe.
China is not a perfect wonderland, but it’s steadily improving, and more importantly the people support it. The same cannot be said of the US, and to equate them is a mistake.
Unlike in bourgeois democracies like the US, which are really bourgeois oligarchies, representatives in in China actually are elected by the proletariat instead of pre-selected by the bourgeoisie. And it shows.
- Most in China Call Their Nation A Democracy, Most in U.S. Say America Isn’t
- Long-term survey reveals Chinese government satisfaction
- Helping 800 Million People Escape Poverty Was Greatest Such Effort in History, Says [UN] Secretary-General, on Seventieth Anniversary of China’s Founding
- China’s Energy Use Per Person Surpasses Europe’s for First Time
- At 54, China’s average retirement age is too low
- China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data
- Chinese Scientists Are Leaving the United States [for China]
Removed by mod
Lmao. Klanadians acting like they’re above it all will never stop being funny. You’re living in a banana republic providing minerals and gas to the US while still vassalized to a literal monarch, pipe down about democracy.
If you think that a country that has continuously improved the lives of the people living there for over 70s years is a shithole then your opinions can be safely ignored.
