• Ensign_Rutherford@startrek.websiteEnglish
        42·
        1 year ago

        She is totally one of my faves. I wasn’t even aware of all this stuff about Tuvix until I joined lemmy, personally I don’t think she did anything wrong either

            • illusoryMechanist@lemmy.worldEnglish
              2·
              1 year ago

              Tuvix was more effective than both Tuvok and Neelix and comsumed less resources. Needs of the many should actually lead to more crew fusions, not less.

              • Stamets@startrek.websiteOPEnglish
                31·
                1 year ago

                1. It is quite literally impossible to be more effective than both Tuvok and Neelix. Both had their own individual jobs that were now collated into a single being. He had less time and availability to answer all issues. He cannot be in two places at once.

                2. If Tuvix was injured or killed then two roles were left unfilled.

                3. While ‘sort-of-but-not-really’ the same person, that didn’t stop everyone from feeling the loss of Tuvok and Neelix. This new guy may have had the same memories and experiences but he had a completely different outlook on all of those memories. Relationships that had been built with both crewmen now were left to wither and die.

                Tuvix was already damaging crew morale. There’s a reason that the bridge had zero response to him being led away. Tuvix wasn’t their friend and never was. He wasn’t the person they had built a relationship with. He was a perpetual reminder that everything they knew was gone. They lost not only their morale officer but a senior officer.

                The needs of the many were fulfilled by unmaking the mistake of Tuvix.

            • Jaccident@lemm.eeEnglish
              32·
              1 year ago

              If I could reverse engineer your dead parents from your DNA, but it would kill you, have I therefore a moral imperative to deconstruct you, even against your will?

              • Stamets@startrek.websiteOPEnglish
                43·
                1 year ago

                That is a bad faith argument. You’re ignoring the entire context of the situation. On top of that, you’re narrowly compacting the actual ethical/moral situation at hand.

                I’m down for an actual discussion, if you want, but not if it’s gonna be like that. The discussion around Tuvix is not as black or white as you’re painting it out to be.

                • Jaccident@lemm.eeEnglish
                  42·
                  1 year ago

                  I’m not ignoring the context of the situation, there are good arguments for returning Tuvix to his previous selves, but “needs of the many” isn’t one of them.

                  Ultimately we’re talking about a ridiculous dilemma though, so I don’t know it needs to be this serious.

    • remotelove@lemmy.caEnglish
      161·
      1 year ago

      Of Voyager? Once you get through the first couple of seasons, it’s OK. Just remember that anytime you see a Kazon, just go get a coffee or a beer or something and pretend they don’t exist. Don’t acknowledge them and don’t talk about them.

      Just imagine each Kazon episode like Garfield minus Garfield and the storyline is so much better.

      • DontMakeMoreBabies@kbin.social
        4·
        1 year ago

        So… Kazon? I’m sure I could Google it, but I’m curious to hear a fan’s perspective (I watched TNG growing up but that’s about it).

        • Stamets@startrek.websiteOPEnglish
          14·
          1 year ago

          The issue about getting a fans perspective on the Kazon is that said fan has to remember the Kazon. They were incredibly forgettable.

          Voyager takes place tens of thousands of lightyears away from Federation space. The whole plot is them trying to find their way home while running into new alien species. Vulcans, Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi… all that is gone and we need to start over. So they go back to the drawing board to make a bunch of new alien species for the show. One of the main ones being Kazon.

          They were seemingly designed to be a hostile faction that really liked war. They had forehead ridges, jagged teeth, a very particular hair style and their skin color was predominately darker. If that sounds familiar it’s because it’s basically just the klingons. Only issue is that these guys had none of the history that the Klingons did. Just Klingon Lite. Also didn’t help that they were wildly misogynistic. The society was entirely patriarchal so women were treated as second class citizens.

          They lasted two seasons. The last time we really saw them on screen was the first episode of Season 3. Anything since have been passing references.

          They were just kind of a lazy, badly written species that had nothing going for them and are best left relegated to the scrap piles of history.

          • 🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️@yiffit.netEnglish
            2·
            1 year ago

            They were also ugly as hell compared to the other races introduced by VOY. The most interesting to me was the fat blue dudes that sat cloaked and spied on ships, asking an AI about what to do next, that started spying on the doctor seeing his new dream program and thinking it was real. I always forget the race name… I think they only mention it like once. 🤣

            • Stamets@startrek.websiteOPEnglish
              1·
              1 year ago

              You’re not talking about the Hirogien, are you? Spelling is probably off. I’m not as well versed in Voyager as I’d like to be.

                • Stamets@startrek.websiteOPEnglish
                  2·
                  1 year ago

                  I made another comment very proudly saying the wrong name. There are so many random alien species that don’t end up mattering that I got them all confused.

                  You’re talking about, I think, the Overlookers. The ones who spied on the Doctors dreams, right? They were part of the Hierarchy

            • wheeldawg@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              1·
              1 year ago

              I forget their names too. I remember they allied with some of them in “The Void”, I think season 7. But we see them a couple times. That and the episode you mentioned is at least 2.

    • jarfil@beehaw.orgEnglish
      3·
      1 year ago

      If you decide to watch them, then, and I can’t stress this enough, DO NOT start with the warp 10 one. It has… uh… too many layers upon layers… or something.