Democrats aren’t attacking Jill Stein because they think she is taking votes from Kamala Harris. No one I know who’s voting Green would consider a vote for Harris at this point. They’re attacking Jill Stein because they don’t want voters to know that there can be a worker-centered party to the left of the Democrats that supports popular policies like Medicare for All, a $25 wage and federally guaranteed housing.
There are 80+ million eligible voters who don’t vote at all because they don’t see the point. Democrats are okay with this, in fact, they don’t want any candidate to their left to appeal to those voters with popular policies.
The fact that the Green Party exists shows that the Democrats aren’t pushing the most progressive policies. Jill Stein’s candidacy shows that it’s possible to support reproductive justice AND be against funding and arming a genocide. That we can end homelessness if we stopped funding endless wars around the globe.
Democrats don’t want anyone to the left of them to exist because it’s the only way they can convince Americans that Dem policies are “the best that we can do”. To Dems, anything else is just “asking for a pony”.
Don’t fall for it. Despite Dem’s desire to have you think otherwise, things don’t have to be this way.
Another world is possible.
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I’m voting for neither Republicans or Democrats so that means I’m voting for both
It’s absolutely incredible that people think this is an actual sound argument.
Actually by not voting for Trump I am supporting Harris
Voting for a candidate who has vowed to continue a genocide will not, in fact, stop the genocide.
Bourgeois democracy will never willingly hand you the tools to dismantle itself. Nothing other than revolution will ever dismantle this system of genocide and working class oppression.
I really don’t understand how people keep forgetting that DONALDFUCKINGTRUP is the other option. He would literally nuke the area given the chance and has said as much.
How does that excuse the Democrats arming a genocide?
Did I say that it does?
Please do yourself a favor and look into the 50+ year history of the US sending arms to Israel. You’ll find that it’s not possible for the US to completely pull out of supporting them with military aid.
You’re justifying voting for a party actively involved in a genocide by saying the alternative is worse. So, yes you are absolutely excusing what the democrats are doing. At least have the decency to come out and say it.
Why not? The US has supported Israel since its formation, no arguments there, but so what? Why couldn’t that change?
You keep bringing up Trump every time someone points out that Democrats are gleefully enabling genocide, yet no one here has ever expressed the slightest interest for voting for Trump.
Why the fuck isn’t it?
How? Harris isn’t even allowing Palestinian Americans to speak. She isn’t even trying to appeal to them or acknowledge them.
Thanks for the compliment but my bad back calls bullshit on me being young.
Because Trump is firmly aligned with Netanyahu and opposed to the existence of Palestine.
And Biden and Harris aren’t? Harris even parrots the lies about mass rape by Hamas and that Israel is defending itself.
No. Not like Trump. Not by a long shot.
Trump openly told Netanyahu to eradicate the Palestinians. Trump has empowered Israel over and over again. if anyone gained anything during Trump’s presidency it was Israel.
Exclusive: US has sent Israel thousands of 2,000-pound bombs since Oct. 7
Pay attention to the news, please. Biden sent Israel thousands of 2000-pound bombs, he is helping Israel eradicate Palestinians.
Try reading more than a headline.
Ok, sure. Here’s the second paragraph:
Question for you, who has been the president of the US since October 7, 2023?
Joe Biden. The guy that’s been preventing this from becoming World War Three.
That’s better than what Trump has done and will do. It sucks but it’s the best option for the people in the area.
No it isn’t. You can’t explain our situation to us, you have zero clue.
I have a pretty good clue of the reporting that’s been done by The Times of Israel sucking Trump’s dick. https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/100-times-president-trump-supported-israel/
So is Harris.
That is a lie. The United States supports Israel because of its position in the region. To defend democracy and economies in the region, the US has to negotiate with the Israel terrorist state. Trump doesn’t give a shit about anyone in the region and has fully supported Netanyahu’s genocide. The current conflict is largely due to Trump’s actions as president and Biden’s inaction as president.
Tell me more about how elections work you seem to really understand democracy
And by negotiate you mean unconditionally arm their genocide?
Again, the weapons Israel is using for their genocide were sent to them by Biden, not Trump. https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
Once again, Biden is actively arming this genocide. That doesn’t sound like inaction to me.
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Okay, and? Israel has been a genocidal colonizer state since its inception. Every previous president who armed them is a war criminal, too.
It really isn’t. Israel is a genocidal settler state living on stolen land. They should be abolished and the land returned to Palestine, its rightful owners. What part of this are you struggling with?
Oh fuck off. You said yourself they only care about Israel because of its position in the region. They don’t give a shit about terrorism, they’ve been actively funding terrorists and destabilizing the region for decades. It’s never been about democracy or fighting terror and you are incredibly naive if you still believe this. It’s only ever been about extracting as much oil from the region as possible as cheaply as possible.
Excuse me? I’m not choosing shit. Please link to me exactly where I said I was going to vote for Trump. I have never once expressed any interest in voting for him, not in 2016, nor 2020, nor today. No, refusing to vote for Harris is not, in fact, a vote for Trump. That’s not how voting works and you are a literal baby if you think not voting for a specific candidate is inherently a vote for another.
They have never been serious about a ceasefire. Biden is still sending Israel all the weapons they need to carry out their extermination campaign. If he was even the smallest bit serious about enforcing a ceasefire he would stop sending them weapons to fire.
A third party vote is the same as not voting. Not voting in a presidential election means you don’t care who wins. I’ll give you that. However, you seem to be someone who does care about the outcome of the election and is in support of minimizing conflict in the Middle East. If that’s the case, Trump has informed us that he intends to destroy the region by permitting Netanyahu to eliminate the Palestinians. So, by not voting, you are choosing to not let your voice be heard in the matter.
By not voting for the viable candidate that most aligns with your philosophies, you are increasing the risk of the other candidate’s victory.
I very much agree with this.
Iran.
Oh well if they’re trying real hard to get a ceasefire I guess they’re just weak and incompetent. In which case why would I support them.
It must be exhausting always rooting for the antihero.
As opposed to, what?, rooting for accelerationism? Trying to actually make things incrementally better isn’t good enough, so burn the whole fucking thing down (but of course in your fantasy you survive…)?
Things were undeniably better under Biden than they were under Trump. Obama was better than Bush. we keep trying to improve shit, and y’all are insisting that breaking it all is better than continual improvement.
In what way exactly?
Real income is up. Gas prices relative to the value of the dollar are down. Employment is far, far higher than the last year of Trump being in office. Crime is down across the board, esp. violent crime. Inflation is back to the same levels that it was.
People complain about groceries being higher in price, which is true, but the real income has gone up faster than grocery prices. People say that they would rather see prices drop, without understanding that that’s deflation, and that deflation is the start of a death-spiral for an economy.
People perceive things differently, but that isn’t reflected in the reality.
Real income is not up relative to the cost of living. In fact, the situation today is worse than it was under Trump. Employment is absolutely terrible, and the dems have been cooking numbers, with latest report having been revised down by a stunning 800K https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/news/talent-acquisition/us-employment-gains-revised-down-over-800k-jobs
In fact, over a quarter of people are living in subsistence wages unable to make any savings, and nearly 60% of people can’t even afford a 1k emergency expense. Furthermore, nearly 6 in 10 U.S. adults are uncomfortable with their level of emergency savings, according to a new Bankrate poll. Before 2022, the percentage had been rising, from 37 percent in 2018 to 44 percent in 2020, 48 percent in 2021 and 58 percent in 2022. This year, it’s barely budged from 57 percent in 2023.
[citation needed] especially one that explains what specific policies dems passed that caused crime to go down
[citation needed]
People say they want their cost of living to go down. Seems to me that you’re the one who doesn’t understand what the implications of people not being able to afford basic needs are. Spending drops, people start defaulting on debt, companies aren’t able to sell goods, leading to layoffs, and that’s how economic crises start.
Your comment is a perfect example of this phenomenon.
It’s exhausting having to explain commons sense to people.
Oh? What common sense
I hand you two plates of cat turds, common sense says you have to eat one of them. /s
Common sense means voting for a pro-genocide candidate to stop genocide
Agreed 100%. I reached voting age in 2008 and I was one of those “both sides suck” idealistic young voters who voted third party. I did again in 2012 and again in 2016 thinking “Hillary’s already got this one, I can protest vote”. Nope, we ended up with Trump. Ever since that I will only vote blue no matter who, at least as long as the Democrats are the only viable party with some sense of normalcy. Third parties are completely unviable in the US election system. We need ranked choice for a third party vote to not be a throwaway vote. Until that happens, we can’t afford to pick “the best choice”, we have to pick “the best choice that actually has a chance”. Even if it’s not really the best choice. Very happy to have gone out and voted early last week. We need the blue wave. Once the Republican party is thoroughly stomped into the ground and made completely unviable can we focus on a truly liberal third party, but honestly we probably have a better chance of slowly moving the Dems left than we do a third party taking over. It may not happen in my lifespan but I’d rather see progress than regression.
The Democrats will never allow that to happen. Nancy Pelosi Says U.S. ‘Needs a Strong Republican Party’
Liberals said that shit in 2016 and again in 2020 and the Democrats have since only moved to the right. They’ve outflanked the GOP on the border and are actively supporting a genocide.
Ok, what is your strategy then? I don’t disagree that some prominent Democrats aren’t as liberal as we like, but Nancy Pelosi isn’t a government official anymore. As the old guard gets replaced, the hope is that we bring in more and more liberal people over time. Voting third party is ineffective no matter how you look at it, at least not in the Presidential election. If third parties want any hope of taking over they need to start small and win local and state positions rather than just trying to start at the top. Another comment here said the Green Party has 200 elected positions of like 50000+. That’s nowhere near enough influence on the ground to win a Presidential race.
Voting third party - waste your vote. Your vote means nothing. There is no chance that a third party wins a Presidential election and to think otherwise is naive. If you’re a young voter, voting for the first time, you may think this is a good option. I sure did, and if you vote third party I can’t stop you, but in a few election cycles I hope you’ll come to the same realization that it’s a waste of time. Hopefully your wasted vote doesn’t let something as evil as Trump’s Presidency happen.
Vote Republican - we definitely, actively, vocally, and happily continue to endorse Israel and genocide and probably stop supporting Ukraine at all and possibly even support Russia directly. We know what side Trump is on. Voting Trump doesn’t help the genocide situation at all. Things in the US will go to shit, that’s almost a given. Fascism gets worse on the global stage.
Vote Democrat - we know that there is at least conflict among Dems regarding Israel and Palestine. We know that they strongly support Ukraine and oppose Russia. They probably won’t stop supplying Israel, but at least there’s a chance that something will change. There’s also still the subject of control of the Senate, House, and Supreme Court - the President alone can’t do everything. It’s not a perfect situation, but few things in life are. We do know that things in the US will be much better under Dems.
Unfortunately, it’s going to be very very difficult to break the two-party paradigm without ranked choice voting here in the US. Do you see a serious path forward for the US that doesn’t involve supporting Israel? I don’t. At least not right now. Be serious. The US has too many interests (militarily and economically) in Israel. I’m open to suggestions as long as they are realistic.
We just today had the poster child of the “new guard” of the democrats coming out and talking about how great it is that nothing happens now. While we are one year into a genocide. While we are further building the wall and enforcing all the border policies that she went down to the border to have a photo op crying at.
Do you think AOC will save anyone? She’ll just go back to brunch while the world burns.
If you can’t see further than a single election cycle ahead I guess. Consistently voting for the “lesser evil” will only make the “lesser evil” more evil. If there is a voting bloc that is strong enough to apparently scupper the democrats maybe they should try to appeal to them in any way rather than court the people voting for the “greater evil”?
We are not fucking liberals and the problem is that they are and that historically liberals have allowed fascists to take power. You Ave no idea what you are talking about.
Nothing less than the revolutionary overthrow of the corrupt, genocidal US state.
Remind me of the last time that worked.
Some democracy you’ve got there, huh?
I’m under no illusions that my third party candidate is going to win. The point is to send a message to the Democrats that their unwavering support for genocide is going to cost them votes, maybe even the election. And if it does they have no one but their own genocidal asses to blame.
Who’s arming Israel right now? Who has vowed to continue arming Israel?
Grow a spine and stop supporting genocide.
There’s a reason I asked for a serious answer. Good luck with that.
Good luck on voting your way out of fascism. That’s really working out well for you, isn’t it?
Hell of a lot better than “overthrowing the US regime” would that’s for damn sure, especially if Harris wins. Just remember the Jan 6th people wanted to do the same thing, if for different reasons. Look at how well that’s going for them. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
You are a German in 1932, casting a ballot for Hindenburg while smugly thinking “I just saved the Weimar Republic!”
Just
even harder this time, surely that will stop the genocide [that accelerated under and is actively enabled by the very Democratic administration for which you are trying to shame people into voting].
Communists and fascists are exactly the same. Look out everyone, the true Politics Understander has arrived!