Because Israelis are raised from birth to view everyone in Gaza as sub-human scum who would kill them at first opportunity if given one. The far right government propaganda has done a number on the population.
It’s why I started calling them Nazis: because of all the variants of Fascism, at the moment with all that we’re seeing in Gaza it’s Nazism that’s the one closest what is being done by Israel.
If you think about it, systematic state-level extreme racism is only natural for an etnostate created during WWII and heavilly reliant on the way of thinking that lead to WWII - that of viewing people not as individual humans whose worth or unworth is defined by their actions and the actions they support but rather as born member of etnicities, with everybody of an etnicity judged as a group to be worthy or unworthy.
So reliant was Israel on etnic identitarianism for its identity and reason to be that when they reached the same level of power and confidence they behave just like all other such nations when they had such power, including the very one which is the Evil Opressor in Israel’s Founding Story: Nazi Germany.
Is the presumption that any confusion from labelling them as such is actually not anywhere near the value of like pointing out the alleged truthfulness which comes from the analogy made by labelling people in Israel as such?
Sorry for the direct language I have ASD, I’m just trying to understand what people mean usually but it’s been told to me that it is rude or offensive so I apologize if that is the case.
Well, notice how I never say “Israelis”, but rather “Israel”, “authorities of Israel”, “the leaders of Israel” or the “government of Israel” (and not just in this post but more broadly).
That’s because it would indeed be massivelly unfair to label all Israelis on the actions of the state of Israel: even if the country is supposedly a Democracy and even if it was a perfect Democracy (and this latter it definitelly isn’t) we can at most claim that most Isrealis support the actions of their government and hence those that do can be judged on that support, never that Israelis in general can be judged on that. One can only pass judgment on individual people (Israelis or otherwise) based on what those individues support and how they act.
So whilst criticising the actions of the nation of Israel, executed on the orders of the elected government of Israel, which was supposedly elected and represents a majority of Israelis, I’m trying hard to not label all Israelis as a group because it would be unfair to the many Israelis that don’t support this shit and, as you rightly point out, it would be quite the hypocrisy for me to complain about others treating people as part of groups and then go and myself do just that.
PS: I have no problem with direct language and in fact vastly prefer it like that, mostly because my core adult growth years were mostly lived in The Netherlands and the Dutch tend to culturally be quite direct. That said, thank you for considering that the person on the other side might feel that direct language is unpleasant.
Ah yes very fair. I did not do a close reading and missed that, I did not notice or see how careful you were with your language, your explanation is much appreciated!
Do you give any credit to Hamas for holding their families as human shields or for decades of suicide bombings and martyrdom?
Weird that Israel has an international coalition of western powers and respected countries behind it, and the coalition behind Palestine is as follows:
Algeri
Bangladesh
Brazil
Boliva
Brazil
Columbia
Cuba
Egypt
Hondura
Iran
Iraq
Jordan
Malaysia
Namibia
North Korea
Pakistan
Qatar
Syria
Turkey
Tunisia
Venezuela
Hamas also has a number of non-state affiliates that support it including:
Islamic Jihad
Mujahedeen
Houthis
Hezbollah
Martyr’s Brigade
Really, these are the friends of your friends? You sure you didn’t get tricked? I mean, here you are taking an absolutely ridiculous position so you can stand up for suicide bombers and jihadists.
Sort of seems like it’s more about the fact that Israel desires to be a democracy but is surrounded by Islamic fundamentalists who want to subjugate people under authoritarian theocracies and ancient superstition with zero possibility of granting lasting human rights for tens of millions of people.
The world is not going to miss Hamas after its gone, least of all the human shields Hamas forces to stay behind and be bombed whenever Israel warns people that they are striking a nearby military target.
Oh, the irony of claiming Palestinians are dying because Hamas uses them as human shields under a video were an IDF soldier straight of murders a Palestinian with a white flag.
That’s the very definition of self-disproven bullshit.
Also one wonders how exactly Hamas’ use of Palestinians as human shields would explain members of the Israeli state calling Palestinians (not Hamas, Palestinians) “human animals” and “violent”, the kind of talk which is neatly and easilly explained by members of the Israeli government being rabid racists and something which is even consistent with every single thing they’ve ever said about Palestinians as well as their actions - lots of illogical and falacious argumentative contortions are required to force the “human shields” theory to explain all sorts of statements and actions by the Israeli authorities but the “rabid racist” theory just straight up fits like a glove (Occan’s Razor easilly applies here).
Further, you provide a wonderful example of the rabid racism I mention, by immediatelly going on and on about Hamas to justify killing Palestinians, as if all Palestinians are the same and hence all Hamas and deserving of the same fate.
C’mon, just admit your major hard-on from seeing the “lesser races” being “put in their place” and stop the hypocrite instantly self-disproven bullshit rant. At least you would be deserving of a little bit of respect for your honesty.
Nah, I’m not impressed by the unscripted remarks of a few extremist members of the Israeli government, most especially when that rhetoric does not match the facts on the ground.
This war is about protecting Israel from an existential threat. Israel is deserving of that protection because it is a democracy. It’s really as simple as that. The Palestinian people have had 100 years to stop deploying terrorism as a method of achieving political ends and they have utterly failed. After October 7, enough is enough.
I never once said anything about any civilians deserving this fate. However, it is not Israel that put them there. It is Hamas. Period.
Yeah, because it’s absolutelly normal everywhere in the world for government ministers to deem a whole etnicity “human animals” and suggest nuking a neighbouring enclave and not be kicked out of that government before the day is over.
Also the idea that a country with fighter jets, tanks and even nukes is under extential threat from a bunch of murders from with homemade rockets from a neighbouring country whose land they’ve been stealing for over half a century, would already be unbelieveable in the story of a Fantasy book, but trying to pass that as reality is really taking the piss out of everybody else.
It seems like you don’t know enough about this conflict to really have an opinion.
The existential threat would be the organized and internationally funded terrorist organization operating with impunity within Israel’s borders under the ideology of Islamic Jihad.
The terrorists here are also supported by Iran.
Whatever hope Palestine may have had for a Tuesday solution ended on October 7 when when Hamas sold out its people and its country in order to do 1,200 murders.
You mean the organization that Israel influenced the creation of through decades of mistreatment and mishandling of the situation? The same one Israel is on record saying it’s a good thing as it allows Israel to treat Palestine as a hostile state? Basically exactly what they’re doing now, killing anyone and everyone and just shrugging and saying “because hamas”?
Wow, that’s very nice. It still doesn’t match the activity or facts on the ground.
If the ground activity match the rhetoric of the three or four people you are talking about, it would look like this:
There would be direct military strikes on roads, power infrastructure, and water infrastructure without any pretext of tunnels or Hamas fighters being present;
There would be no humanitarian aid corridors;
There would not be phone call, text message, leaflet, and roof knock warnings before every bombing;
Every day there would be dozens or hundreds of videos of soldiers with rifles or tanks with machine guns opening fire on large groups of civilians;
The civilian death toll would be way, way higher than 1% of the population (1% of Gaza, 0.4% of all Palestinians) after four months;
The numbers of daily casualties would be going up and up instead of trending downward as they have been week after week.
Well they bombed the power and water facilities. They bombed the humanitarian evacuation routes and safe zones. They don’t do any warnings during high tempo mission periods, and they may warn as little as one person and give them 5 minutes to evacuate multiple apartment buildings. At that point it’s pro forma at best and torture at worst.
You’re literally commenting on a thread where they shot at civilians. They wouldn’t in fact shoot every civilian though because they do still need to be able to shoot at Hamas and soldiers can’t carry an infinite amount of ammunition. Furthermore, they’re instigating a famine. So there’s no need to shoot them.
Thanks. I also recommend the books Ilan Pappe has done if you want a more academic approach. A lot of this is independent verification of his work that I’ve found.
I agree that generalizations don’t make sense. But do you mean they weren’t raised to view Gazans as subhuman or that they don’t look down on Gazans as a grown-up?
Well I’m not saying their parents are opposed to their government entirely, but they absolutely don’t consider anyone “subhuman”. I haven’t spoken to them in years so I don’t know their take on what’s happening now, but I’d be willing to bet they would at least admit it’s vastly disproportionate to the Hamas actions
That’s anecdotal evidence. Even accepting it as true, which I do, it does not dispute anything I said about the actual, verifiable, systemic brainwashing going on in Israel re: Palestine.
I’m a Palestinian and I want to thank you for this video. I always wondered what would make indoctrinated Zionists see the wrongs of their actions. This guy found a formula that works: go there and talk to them.
I believe you, but that is separate from what I’m saying. For example, I was brainwashed to think America is the best country on Earth. If it worked, it was temporary as I didn’t believe that by age 20, and I’m far from alone. So I’m just saying that just because there is brainwashing going on there, doesn’t mean “Israelis think Palestinians are sub-human”.
That’s a very good point, I’m sure most Israelis are lovely wonderful people despite the government and atrocities being committed. I bet most Palestinians are equally wonderful. Maybe we should be against indiscriminately killing them?
I agree. Hamas is trying to eradicate the Palestinians by using them as human shields to gain sympathy for it’s cause. They call it martyrdom and they are proud as hell to have their families die as *true Palestinians" but let’s start calling it what it is.
Wtf are you talking about? This guy was trying to get his mother and brother out and evacuated and then was shot holding a white flag. Please point out the Hamas in the video using anyone as a human shield.
It’s this thinking that causes this Nazi shit to happen.
Nah the Nazi shit was a massive and organized campaign of extermination. It was planned and intentional.
It’s a stupid comparison. This is one bad shooting in a war zone. Along with a few others, doesn’t make it anything like the Nazis.
Hamas’s human shield strategy, however, is an organized campaign of extermination, planned and intentional.
I’m also not talking about the guy in the video. Seems like he was murdered, and by a soldier, which makes it a war crime. One war crime, or a dozen war crimes, or a hundred, does not change the cassus belli or the lawful nature of the larger war itself.
No different than 1 or 12 or 100 guys selling drugs on a street corner would make anyone standing on the street corner a drug dealer; it doesn’t.
Delusional with sources. Got it. You don’t need to make things up about Hamas for people not to like them. They have done atrocities such as terrorism, certainly. Doesn’t change the fact that all Palestinian people deserve emancipation.
They mean proximate shielding of course… Because if they don’t adopt a made up redefinition of human shields then their arguemnt falls apart and they discover that it’s them who was delusional.
People aren’t human shields because they live in one of the most dense areas in the world. They’re not human shields if a tunnel runs under their house but they can’t even know about it or access it. The area isn’t even unstable (but they will claim as their did in other posts that all these homes needed to be demolished anyway so the IDF is doing Gazans a favor because the ‘ground is unstable’… Sadly for them that Hamas have actual engineers).
And in any case, using human shields doesn’t allow the IDF to kill everyone… But how else will they carry out the genocide while having useful idiots repeat their claim and feel no guilt about it?
But they can’t possibly admit that… Because then, their argument all falls apart and to their horror they will see the IDF in its true form… They will see that the number of “massacres” committed by Israel this war alone is so fucking horrendous. The guilt and shame will kick in.
I don’t understand how anyone can fire upon someone holding a white flag, they should be tried and sentenced.
Because Israelis are raised from birth to view everyone in Gaza as sub-human scum who would kill them at first opportunity if given one. The far right government propaganda has done a number on the population.
Yeah: extreme rabid violent racism.
It’s why I started calling them Nazis: because of all the variants of Fascism, at the moment with all that we’re seeing in Gaza it’s Nazism that’s the one closest what is being done by Israel.
If you think about it, systematic state-level extreme racism is only natural for an etnostate created during WWII and heavilly reliant on the way of thinking that lead to WWII - that of viewing people not as individual humans whose worth or unworth is defined by their actions and the actions they support but rather as born member of etnicities, with everybody of an etnicity judged as a group to be worthy or unworthy.
So reliant was Israel on etnic identitarianism for its identity and reason to be that when they reached the same level of power and confidence they behave just like all other such nations when they had such power, including the very one which is the Evil Opressor in Israel’s Founding Story: Nazi Germany.
I think that’s fair.
Is the presumption that any confusion from labelling them as such is actually not anywhere near the value of like pointing out the alleged truthfulness which comes from the analogy made by labelling people in Israel as such?
Sorry for the direct language I have ASD, I’m just trying to understand what people mean usually but it’s been told to me that it is rude or offensive so I apologize if that is the case.
Well, notice how I never say “Israelis”, but rather “Israel”, “authorities of Israel”, “the leaders of Israel” or the “government of Israel” (and not just in this post but more broadly).
That’s because it would indeed be massivelly unfair to label all Israelis on the actions of the state of Israel: even if the country is supposedly a Democracy and even if it was a perfect Democracy (and this latter it definitelly isn’t) we can at most claim that most Isrealis support the actions of their government and hence those that do can be judged on that support, never that Israelis in general can be judged on that. One can only pass judgment on individual people (Israelis or otherwise) based on what those individues support and how they act.
So whilst criticising the actions of the nation of Israel, executed on the orders of the elected government of Israel, which was supposedly elected and represents a majority of Israelis, I’m trying hard to not label all Israelis as a group because it would be unfair to the many Israelis that don’t support this shit and, as you rightly point out, it would be quite the hypocrisy for me to complain about others treating people as part of groups and then go and myself do just that.
PS: I have no problem with direct language and in fact vastly prefer it like that, mostly because my core adult growth years were mostly lived in The Netherlands and the Dutch tend to culturally be quite direct. That said, thank you for considering that the person on the other side might feel that direct language is unpleasant.
Ah yes very fair. I did not do a close reading and missed that, I did not notice or see how careful you were with your language, your explanation is much appreciated!
Do you give any credit to Hamas for holding their families as human shields or for decades of suicide bombings and martyrdom?
Weird that Israel has an international coalition of western powers and respected countries behind it, and the coalition behind Palestine is as follows:
Hamas also has a number of non-state affiliates that support it including:
Really, these are the friends of your friends? You sure you didn’t get tricked? I mean, here you are taking an absolutely ridiculous position so you can stand up for suicide bombers and jihadists.
Sort of seems like it’s more about the fact that Israel desires to be a democracy but is surrounded by Islamic fundamentalists who want to subjugate people under authoritarian theocracies and ancient superstition with zero possibility of granting lasting human rights for tens of millions of people.
The world is not going to miss Hamas after its gone, least of all the human shields Hamas forces to stay behind and be bombed whenever Israel warns people that they are striking a nearby military target.
Oh, the irony of claiming Palestinians are dying because Hamas uses them as human shields under a video were an IDF soldier straight of murders a Palestinian with a white flag.
That’s the very definition of self-disproven bullshit.
Also one wonders how exactly Hamas’ use of Palestinians as human shields would explain members of the Israeli state calling Palestinians (not Hamas, Palestinians) “human animals” and “violent”, the kind of talk which is neatly and easilly explained by members of the Israeli government being rabid racists and something which is even consistent with every single thing they’ve ever said about Palestinians as well as their actions - lots of illogical and falacious argumentative contortions are required to force the “human shields” theory to explain all sorts of statements and actions by the Israeli authorities but the “rabid racist” theory just straight up fits like a glove (Occan’s Razor easilly applies here).
Further, you provide a wonderful example of the rabid racism I mention, by immediatelly going on and on about Hamas to justify killing Palestinians, as if all Palestinians are the same and hence all Hamas and deserving of the same fate.
C’mon, just admit your major hard-on from seeing the “lesser races” being “put in their place” and stop the hypocrite instantly self-disproven bullshit rant. At least you would be deserving of a little bit of respect for your honesty.
Nah, I’m not impressed by the unscripted remarks of a few extremist members of the Israeli government, most especially when that rhetoric does not match the facts on the ground.
This war is about protecting Israel from an existential threat. Israel is deserving of that protection because it is a democracy. It’s really as simple as that. The Palestinian people have had 100 years to stop deploying terrorism as a method of achieving political ends and they have utterly failed. After October 7, enough is enough.
I never once said anything about any civilians deserving this fate. However, it is not Israel that put them there. It is Hamas. Period.
Yeah, because it’s absolutelly normal everywhere in the world for government ministers to deem a whole etnicity “human animals” and suggest nuking a neighbouring enclave and not be kicked out of that government before the day is over.
Also the idea that a country with fighter jets, tanks and even nukes is under extential threat from a bunch of murders from with homemade rockets from a neighbouring country whose land they’ve been stealing for over half a century, would already be unbelieveable in the story of a Fantasy book, but trying to pass that as reality is really taking the piss out of everybody else.
Go pull the other one.
It seems like you don’t know enough about this conflict to really have an opinion.
The existential threat would be the organized and internationally funded terrorist organization operating with impunity within Israel’s borders under the ideology of Islamic Jihad.
The terrorists here are also supported by Iran.
Whatever hope Palestine may have had for a Tuesday solution ended on October 7 when when Hamas sold out its people and its country in order to do 1,200 murders.
You mean the organization that Israel influenced the creation of through decades of mistreatment and mishandling of the situation? The same one Israel is on record saying it’s a good thing as it allows Israel to treat Palestine as a hostile state? Basically exactly what they’re doing now, killing anyone and everyone and just shrugging and saying “because hamas”?
Including the ones in charge of the security forces…
Wow, that’s very nice. It still doesn’t match the activity or facts on the ground.
If the ground activity match the rhetoric of the three or four people you are talking about, it would look like this:
There would be direct military strikes on roads, power infrastructure, and water infrastructure without any pretext of tunnels or Hamas fighters being present;
There would be no humanitarian aid corridors;
There would not be phone call, text message, leaflet, and roof knock warnings before every bombing;
Every day there would be dozens or hundreds of videos of soldiers with rifles or tanks with machine guns opening fire on large groups of civilians;
The civilian death toll would be way, way higher than 1% of the population (1% of Gaza, 0.4% of all Palestinians) after four months;
The numbers of daily casualties would be going up and up instead of trending downward as they have been week after week.
Well they bombed the power and water facilities. They bombed the humanitarian evacuation routes and safe zones. They don’t do any warnings during high tempo mission periods, and they may warn as little as one person and give them 5 minutes to evacuate multiple apartment buildings. At that point it’s pro forma at best and torture at worst.
You’re literally commenting on a thread where they shot at civilians. They wouldn’t in fact shoot every civilian though because they do still need to be able to shoot at Hamas and soldiers can’t carry an infinite amount of ammunition. Furthermore, they’re instigating a famine. So there’s no need to shoot them.
And your last two points are just restatements.
For your convenience:
Plan Dalet and Declassified Massacres
1967 war Declassified
Israel Martial Law and Defence (Emergency) Regulations
Palestinian Prisoners in Israel and Military Court
Child abuse of Palestinian prisoners
Gaza March for Return Protest
Palestinians lack civil rights
Occupation and 50 years of dispossession
Arab League advocating for unified state 1948
Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928
Hamas founding charter and Revised charter 2017
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
10 Myths of Israel
History of peace process
How the US became the ally of Israel
Arab Israelis are not equal including Education (2001 report)
Apartheid
Human Shields including Children (2013 Report)
Settler Violence
Torture and Abuse in Interrogations
No freedom of movement
Gaza Blockade is Occupation
Water control
Wow, appreciate the resources. Commenting to view this later…
Thanks. I also recommend the books Ilan Pappe has done if you want a more academic approach. A lot of this is independent verification of his work that I’ve found.
Hmm weird the Israeli who I knew wasn’t like that. Sorry to interrupt your broad generalizations
Edit: downvoters mad that I know Israelis who aren’t hateful? That actually surprises you? Think I’m lying? People are fucking weird.
I agree that generalizations don’t make sense. But do you mean they weren’t raised to view Gazans as subhuman or that they don’t look down on Gazans as a grown-up?
Both
Good to know that, I put a lot of faith in Israelis who rise against their own government.
Well I’m not saying their parents are opposed to their government entirely, but they absolutely don’t consider anyone “subhuman”. I haven’t spoken to them in years so I don’t know their take on what’s happening now, but I’d be willing to bet they would at least admit it’s vastly disproportionate to the Hamas actions
Uncivilized has a pretty good short videoon what makes the israeli’s act this way . They are gaslighted into oblivion from birth to believe that Palestinians are the literal Naiz’s
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Uncivilized has a pretty good short video
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Do let us know if you talk to them. Always nice to hear a different perspective and an example that breaks the stereotype.
Yeah. It’s unlikely – it’s an ex-girlfriend and her family.
That’s anecdotal evidence. Even accepting it as true, which I do, it does not dispute anything I said about the actual, verifiable, systemic brainwashing going on in Israel re: Palestine.
Don’t believe me? How about a video of a former Zionist Israeli man discussing just that: https://x.com/ME_Observer_/status/1731160875308888191?s=20
I’m a Palestinian and I want to thank you for this video. I always wondered what would make indoctrinated Zionists see the wrongs of their actions. This guy found a formula that works: go there and talk to them.
I recommend this documentary interviewing Settlers: https://youtu.be/Eac1l1ozfLc?feature=shared
Especially at minute 10:30
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/Eac1l1ozfLc?feature=shared
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I believe you, but that is separate from what I’m saying. For example, I was brainwashed to think America is the best country on Earth. If it worked, it was temporary as I didn’t believe that by age 20, and I’m far from alone. So I’m just saying that just because there is brainwashing going on there, doesn’t mean “Israelis think Palestinians are sub-human”.
That’s a very good point, I’m sure most Israelis are lovely wonderful people despite the government and atrocities being committed. I bet most Palestinians are equally wonderful. Maybe we should be against indiscriminately killing them?
If you see that person as an insect, a pest, not a person, it would be like swatting a mosquito. We are witnessing genocide.
I agree. Hamas is trying to eradicate the Palestinians by using them as human shields to gain sympathy for it’s cause. They call it martyrdom and they are proud as hell to have their families die as *true Palestinians" but let’s start calling it what it is.
Wtf are you talking about? This guy was trying to get his mother and brother out and evacuated and then was shot holding a white flag. Please point out the Hamas in the video using anyone as a human shield.
It’s this thinking that causes this Nazi shit to happen.
Nah the Nazi shit was a massive and organized campaign of extermination. It was planned and intentional.
It’s a stupid comparison. This is one bad shooting in a war zone. Along with a few others, doesn’t make it anything like the Nazis.
Hamas’s human shield strategy, however, is an organized campaign of extermination, planned and intentional.
I’m also not talking about the guy in the video. Seems like he was murdered, and by a soldier, which makes it a war crime. One war crime, or a dozen war crimes, or a hundred, does not change the cassus belli or the lawful nature of the larger war itself.
No different than 1 or 12 or 100 guys selling drugs on a street corner would make anyone standing on the street corner a drug dealer; it doesn’t.
When it comes to human shields, the only independent verification back in 2014 is of Weapons (not rockets) hidden at a vacant school, situated btwn 2 UNRWA schools housing displaced people, by a Palestinian armed group. The Guardian journalists had encountered a couple individuals in 2014 too. Yet none of those come remotely close to making hospitals and schools bombing targets. Even if all the IDF claims were true, that does not exempt those hospitals and schools as protected under international law.
And let’s just conveniently ignore how much the IDF uses human shields while we’re at it
Delusional. They are using human shields right now and it has caused tens of thousands of needless deaths. That’s what they wanted though.
Delusional with sources. Got it. You don’t need to make things up about Hamas for people not to like them. They have done atrocities such as terrorism, certainly. Doesn’t change the fact that all Palestinian people deserve emancipation.
They mean proximate shielding of course… Because if they don’t adopt a made up redefinition of human shields then their arguemnt falls apart and they discover that it’s them who was delusional.
People aren’t human shields because they live in one of the most dense areas in the world. They’re not human shields if a tunnel runs under their house but they can’t even know about it or access it. The area isn’t even unstable (but they will claim as their did in other posts that all these homes needed to be demolished anyway so the IDF is doing Gazans a favor because the ‘ground is unstable’… Sadly for them that Hamas have actual engineers).
And in any case, using human shields doesn’t allow the IDF to kill everyone… But how else will they carry out the genocide while having useful idiots repeat their claim and feel no guilt about it?
But they can’t possibly admit that… Because then, their argument all falls apart and to their horror they will see the IDF in its true form… They will see that the number of “massacres” committed by Israel this war alone is so fucking horrendous. The guilt and shame will kick in.
It’s like how cops shoot people with their hands up. Guess where those cops get their training.