I mean logically the kind of shit that grows on your dishes isn’t much better for you than the literal shit that a toilet brush would scrub out of your toilet bowl. They both contain a lot of the same bacteria, you wouldn’t be much better off licking an old used plate that has been sitting in a moist environment for a few days before you put the dishwasher on than you would be from licking a toilet brush. Well made dishwashers are designed to vigorously wash and, with the right settings and detergent, sanitize everything inside them so that they are safe to eat off of. Heck the machines they use to sanitize surgical equipment are essentially fancy dishwashers. But emotionally I couldn’t do it. Even if I used the best dishwasher known to man and rewashed everything multiple times, I just wouldn’t be able to get over that mental hurdle.
I mean logically the kind of shit that grows on your dishes isn’t much better for you than the literal shit that a toilet brush would scrub out of your toilet bowl.
First, what the fuck is growing on your dishes that you believe is “logically” equivalent to eating human shit? Second, this isn’t a logic problem or a place for opinion. All the work was already done for you, just waiting for you to look it up instead of giving your opinion on bacteria.
Human shit also doesn’t only contain bacteria. There’s an estimated 100 million - 1 billion virus per gram of wet shit inside of us. Fungi are estimated at up to a million microorganisms per gram of wet shit and there’s still around 100 billion bacteria per gram of wet shit. Let’s not forget parasites like cryptosporidium which your body purges in shit.
Meanwhile either giving your dishes a cursory rinse or not allowing them to sit covered in food for days on end would minimize bacterial or fungal growth on your dishes.
This is a reminder for everyone: your opinion on facts that you can’t be bothered to type in a search box are less than worthless. They’re disinformation and in some cases, like telling people that eating shit is no more harmful that licking a plate, can cause harm.
Just say no to opinions on what facts may or may not be. Cite your sources.
I didn’t say it was the equivalent I said neither are good for you and both could be cleaned and sanitized sufficiently by the right dishwasher, so please don’t put words in my mouth thanks. Damp used dishes stuffed into a dishwasher for a few days aren’t going to have anything good for you on them either and that’s how most people treat their used dishes. We get viruses and parasites growing on regular food that has gone bad too, and both are going to disagree with your stomach and potentially do some harm. Does rinsing your dishes or washing them right away help mitigate or prevent that? Sure. Does everyone do that? Of course not. I never said “eating shit is the exact same as licking a dirty dish” nor did I say anything close to that. I said “both are bad for you and a well made dishwasher is designed to clean things really well and even sanitize them in order to make them safe to eat off of, so it makes sense logically that this could be safe but I still wouldn’t do it anyway”.
Also how many microbes (because mako used number of actual organisms per gram to make his numbers big and scary) per visible colony or growth that you’d see on a plate with food that’s been left out for several days.
What he should have elaborated on, instead of only a single sentence with a curse word for emphasis, is that the microbes in your fecal matter are more likely to be able to survive inside of your body if they make it past your innate defenses when consumed. They were already in one area and survived, and now they may be entering a different area (which is one of the major ways infections can happen). You have plenty of microbes happily surviving on your skin, in your digestive tract, etc. without causing any issues, but if they make it elsewhere, some pretty nasty infections result. Look up Staphylococcus epidermidis and its outcomes for people who have plastic medical devices implanted, even though it’s really great for you to have it on your skin.
Damp used dishes stuffed into a dishwasher for a few days aren’t going to have anything good for you on them either and that’s how most people treat their used dishes.
No they don’t, don’t project onto the world what you think is normal. Everyone I know washes up or puts the dishwasher on straight after they’ve eaten, then puts their dishes away when they’re clean and dried.
Wow. It usually takes my partner and I two or three days to fill it. I should look up the specifics of the model and see if the energy saving option is worth it for small loads
I don’t know what “brutal science” is but I do know that the scientific process was used in many peer-reviewed studies to understand what lives in our shit. That holds a lot more weight for me than what an anonymous poster feels might be right in regards to the same subject matter.
Furthermore, the greater concept here is that we as a species have access to actual information by powers of magnitude more then ever before in human history and yet a significant percentage of the population believe that vaccines cause autism because a washed up Playboy bunny repeated what she read from a discredited “doctor” and it caught on like wildfire.
People in general too often believe what they hear or read without legitimate evidence.
Disinformation exists at best because people unconsciously believe their opinions are just as valid as peer-reviewed research, and at worst to weaponize information for personal gain. Whatever the intent it’s a plague on humanity and I won’t apologize for calling it out when seen. If that’s too “brutal” for you I hope you can get to a place where reading cited information in response to opinion doesn’t disrupt your sensitivities.
I think brutal science is implying that while you’re likely right, you’re also being strangely aggressive and pretty uncharitable to the people you’re replying to. See your three paragraph response to a one liner as an example.
But emotionally I couldn’t do it. Even if I used the best dishwasher known to man and rewashed everything multiple times, I just wouldn’t be able to get over that mental hurdle.
I know, right? If nothing else it just feels wrong…
That’s literally how they convinced people to vote against doing it when I lived in L.A. They called it “toilet to tap.” Now L.A. is running out of water and suddenly they’re desperate to do it.
Guess what? Animals piss and shit in municipal water supplies that aren’t recycled. Constantly.
It’s not the same. One, the volume of water in which fish shit/piss is emmensly larger. Two, there are other life forms that recycle that shit and use it to grow.
What Im trying to get at is that its obviously not that big a hurdle, at least I dont know anyone that regularly complains about feeling nasty drinking tap water.
Its just about what people are used to, not reall, about something being unclean or not.
I don’t know about the dishes but according to my memory of something I read a while ago (can’t look things up right now), the kitchen sink and kitchen brushes aren’t much cleaner than anything in the toilet; and actually, kitchen washcloths/sponges tend to be worse than toilet surfaces.
So, maybe don’t put toilet brushes in the dishwasher but definitely don’t put in kitchen washcloths either. Not sure what this means about us washing dishes by hand with a sponge either. And maybe don’t put in used washcloths along your clothes in the washing machine.
i would assume the big problem with toilet items is that some quite nasty bugs come out of our bungholes, whereas in the kitchen you’ll at worst find salmonella if you don’t practice good hygeiene around raw unvaccinated bird products
It’s not about killing microbes, it’s about getting rid of pathogens and spores they create. You can’t steam that away. For example, botulinum toxin can withstand up to +85C and botulinum spores can withstand boiling water. No dishwasher will make your stuff safe from botulinum.
Your toilet brushes probably don’t have anaerobic bacteria spores on them. To be clear, I think this is properly gross, but I also acknowledge that to some degree this is a marginally irrational preference for keeping food and poop separate. In all likelihood, there is no actual risk of disease from this practice.
Considering you can find traces of human feces on literally every surface inside a human home, I imagine you mainly need stuff like that for surgery, and surgical items are washed in what is, essentially, a dishwasher.
I mean logically the kind of shit that grows on your dishes isn’t much better for you than the literal shit that a toilet brush would scrub out of your toilet bowl. They both contain a lot of the same bacteria, you wouldn’t be much better off licking an old used plate that has been sitting in a moist environment for a few days before you put the dishwasher on than you would be from licking a toilet brush. Well made dishwashers are designed to vigorously wash and, with the right settings and detergent, sanitize everything inside them so that they are safe to eat off of. Heck the machines they use to sanitize surgical equipment are essentially fancy dishwashers. But emotionally I couldn’t do it. Even if I used the best dishwasher known to man and rewashed everything multiple times, I just wouldn’t be able to get over that mental hurdle.
First, what the fuck is growing on your dishes that you believe is “logically” equivalent to eating human shit? Second, this isn’t a logic problem or a place for opinion. All the work was already done for you, just waiting for you to look it up instead of giving your opinion on bacteria.
Human shit also doesn’t only contain bacteria. There’s an estimated 100 million - 1 billion virus per gram of wet shit inside of us. Fungi are estimated at up to a million microorganisms per gram of wet shit and there’s still around 100 billion bacteria per gram of wet shit. Let’s not forget parasites like cryptosporidium which your body purges in shit.
Meanwhile either giving your dishes a cursory rinse or not allowing them to sit covered in food for days on end would minimize bacterial or fungal growth on your dishes.
This is a reminder for everyone: your opinion on facts that you can’t be bothered to type in a search box are less than worthless. They’re disinformation and in some cases, like telling people that eating shit is no more harmful that licking a plate, can cause harm.
Just say no to opinions on what facts may or may not be. Cite your sources.
I didn’t say it was the equivalent I said neither are good for you and both could be cleaned and sanitized sufficiently by the right dishwasher, so please don’t put words in my mouth thanks. Damp used dishes stuffed into a dishwasher for a few days aren’t going to have anything good for you on them either and that’s how most people treat their used dishes. We get viruses and parasites growing on regular food that has gone bad too, and both are going to disagree with your stomach and potentially do some harm. Does rinsing your dishes or washing them right away help mitigate or prevent that? Sure. Does everyone do that? Of course not. I never said “eating shit is the exact same as licking a dirty dish” nor did I say anything close to that. I said “both are bad for you and a well made dishwasher is designed to clean things really well and even sanitize them in order to make them safe to eat off of, so it makes sense logically that this could be safe but I still wouldn’t do it anyway”.
You literally said ‘isnt much better’. A magnitude of a few thousand is ‘much better’ in my opinion.
Noone likes being criticized but this could be an opportunity to embrace it and learn something.
The real question here is how many grams of shit are actually in the bristles of a used toilet brush
Also how many microbes (because mako used number of actual organisms per gram to make his numbers big and scary) per visible colony or growth that you’d see on a plate with food that’s been left out for several days.
What he should have elaborated on, instead of only a single sentence with a curse word for emphasis, is that the microbes in your fecal matter are more likely to be able to survive inside of your body if they make it past your innate defenses when consumed. They were already in one area and survived, and now they may be entering a different area (which is one of the major ways infections can happen). You have plenty of microbes happily surviving on your skin, in your digestive tract, etc. without causing any issues, but if they make it elsewhere, some pretty nasty infections result. Look up Staphylococcus epidermidis and its outcomes for people who have plastic medical devices implanted, even though it’s really great for you to have it on your skin.
No they don’t, don’t project onto the world what you think is normal. Everyone I know washes up or puts the dishwasher on straight after they’ve eaten, then puts their dishes away when they’re clean and dried.
Wait, you know folks who regularly run the dishwasher each day?
I do yes
Wow. It usually takes my partner and I two or three days to fill it. I should look up the specifics of the model and see if the energy saving option is worth it for small loads
Ah that’s the issue. The people I know have 2 kids, so it takes half the time to fill the dishwasher.
Personally I only run the dishwasher when we have people round for food and drinks. Otherwise I wash up the old fashioned way because it saves power.
yay, the brutal science man to the rescue!
I don’t know what “brutal science” is but I do know that the scientific process was used in many peer-reviewed studies to understand what lives in our shit. That holds a lot more weight for me than what an anonymous poster feels might be right in regards to the same subject matter.
Furthermore, the greater concept here is that we as a species have access to actual information by powers of magnitude more then ever before in human history and yet a significant percentage of the population believe that vaccines cause autism because a washed up Playboy bunny repeated what she read from a discredited “doctor” and it caught on like wildfire.
People in general too often believe what they hear or read without legitimate evidence. Disinformation exists at best because people unconsciously believe their opinions are just as valid as peer-reviewed research, and at worst to weaponize information for personal gain. Whatever the intent it’s a plague on humanity and I won’t apologize for calling it out when seen. If that’s too “brutal” for you I hope you can get to a place where reading cited information in response to opinion doesn’t disrupt your sensitivities.
I think brutal science is implying that while you’re likely right, you’re also being strangely aggressive and pretty uncharitable to the people you’re replying to. See your three paragraph response to a one liner as an example.
I know, right? If nothing else it just feels wrong…
Like those wastewater treatment systems that turn sewage water into cleaner drinking water than we normally use, it still feels icky.
That’s literally how they convinced people to vote against doing it when I lived in L.A. They called it “toilet to tap.” Now L.A. is running out of water and suddenly they’re desperate to do it.
Guess what? Animals piss and shit in municipal water supplies that aren’t recycled. Constantly.
They could always opt for refined ocean water. The Arabs and Israelis do it for the past 2 decades or so.
Sure, or they could just recycle water, which takes a lot less energy and is far less polluting.
So first we need to stop fish from shitting in the ocean
It’s not the same. One, the volume of water in which fish shit/piss is emmensly larger. Two, there are other life forms that recycle that shit and use it to grow.
Still people drink tap water. How come?
where else would you get drinking water? a water shop? a spring?
What Im trying to get at is that its obviously not that big a hurdle, at least I dont know anyone that regularly complains about feeling nasty drinking tap water. Its just about what people are used to, not reall, about something being unclean or not.
In some places, tap water is drinkable. For example, where I live. Sure, it doesn’t taste as good as bottled water, but it’s safe to drink.
I was being sarcastic. Obviously people drink tap water even though it is recycled piss, so the ‘mental hurdle’ cant be that big
To be clear personally if given the choice I’d rather the recycled piss water than tap water considering it has stricter standards.
I was just pointing out the ick factor exists whether or not it’s logical.
Depending on where you live tap water has the same or not noticibly lower quality of bottled water. Just for a fraction of the price.
That was my point. The water quality isnt affected by the fact that there were tons of shit swimming in the same water a few days before.
I don’t know about the dishes but according to my memory of something I read a while ago (can’t look things up right now), the kitchen sink and kitchen brushes aren’t much cleaner than anything in the toilet; and actually, kitchen washcloths/sponges tend to be worse than toilet surfaces.
So, maybe don’t put toilet brushes in the dishwasher but definitely don’t put in kitchen washcloths either. Not sure what this means about us washing dishes by hand with a sponge either. And maybe don’t put in used washcloths along your clothes in the washing machine.
i would assume the big problem with toilet items is that some quite nasty bugs come out of our bungholes, whereas in the kitchen you’ll at worst find salmonella if you don’t practice good hygeiene around raw unvaccinated bird products
It’s not about killing microbes, it’s about getting rid of pathogens and spores they create. You can’t steam that away. For example, botulinum toxin can withstand up to +85C and botulinum spores can withstand boiling water. No dishwasher will make your stuff safe from botulinum.
Your toilet brushes probably don’t have anaerobic bacteria spores on them. To be clear, I think this is properly gross, but I also acknowledge that to some degree this is a marginally irrational preference for keeping food and poop separate. In all likelihood, there is no actual risk of disease from this practice.
Hot water isn’t the only thing cleaning your dishes you know.
Yes, but none of the things inside the dishwasher are rated against fece transmited pathogens.
Considering you can find traces of human feces on literally every surface inside a human home, I imagine you mainly need stuff like that for surgery, and surgical items are washed in what is, essentially, a dishwasher.
Blast furnace is essentially a domestic oven by that logic.
They are a lot more similar to each other than a blast furnace is to an oven but whatever man.