did you read the link or just jump into the comments with a rageon? because the link explains how the right wing thinks of this shit. I didn’t make it up, they did.
My bad, I assumed we were actually staying on topic - getting incels mental help. I’ll correct myself and assume from now on that any comments that fail to make sense are bad-faith attempts to co-opt a post.
Edit: Upon reread, I see that you were genuine, and I actually do need to check and correct myself. I apologize.
because there’s a wide array of responses and I’m genuinely curious to learn what the OP of this thread meant. Not because I was attacking their premise, but because there’s past history of this tact - that the world should accommodate a percentage of the population who have shown misogynistic tendencies. To which I say: nah. nope. naw.
I apologize. I’ve been up for twenty-four hours, the last twelve of which were on a delayed and then stranded bus in a snow storm. I was taking out my frustrations on you, and was needlessly snarky.
Upon reread, I see that you were genuine, and I actually do need to check and correct myself. I’ll leave my earlier comments up with an edit.
Why would I mean apologism? They need their worldview reprogramming because their current worldview is misogynistic and false. Reprogramming would include comprehensive challenging of negative attitudes and modelling of correct, non-misogynistic beliefs.
It should be done by people with psychological training because they have the skills and knowhow needed to reprogramme someone’s thinking but it doesn’t particularly need mental health professionals or collusive, misplaced sympathy.
I think you’ll find that when you have what you need and dissolving that which you need not, there’s way less room for crap like racism and the -phobias
What trauma? listening to Jordan Peterson? If being rejected makes you hate women, then you were an entitled asshole to begin with. Nobody is owed affection, companionship, or romance.
This attitude is an insult to lonely men people everywhere, who everyday cope with romantic failure without regressing into a chud. Incels are deplorable people; fuck 'em.
Sigh. Just say you don’t know shit about mental health and move on with your performative outrage for any time you hear the word incel. I don’t have time to teach an idiot about trauma informed perspectives and it’s clear you’re not looking to learn anything, so I’m going to ask you to shut up and listen to the mental health professionals, like the one’s in the article who did the study. Because your little rage fit over incels is NOT more informed than studies conducted by professionals, and in fact is much more regressive so congrats for a perspective that make the problem you pretend to care about worse. Must feel nice to teach those incels a lesson though I’m sure you showed them.
For real, like damn, if you want there to be less incels, well we gotta fix it, and unless their personal solution is to just round em up and throw em in camps, then maybe we have to listen to the people who spent time studying this. Shocking. I swear they just wanna feel mad and superior.
it’s on them to fix themselves. not society. I’m alone, divorced, but I still don’t blame women or society. that’s the incel’s problem: lack of personal accountability, entitlement to a woman, society blaming.
it takes two to make a relationship, and I’m tired of my fellow man being offended at having to work at having a relationship
Literally not a single person in this discussion is making that argument. I’m confused as to why you keep posting that as if it’s some kind of gotcha. Incels are bad, they need to go away. Unless you want to start up a Gestapo to round them up and murder them, they need to be rehabilitated somehow. Like better mental healthcare and eliminating the stigma around receiving it.
This is a really gross and condescending take. Outrage over incels isn’t performative, and if you think so you’re either stupid or a psychopath. Just because you don’t personally face threats of bodily harm doesn’t mean it isn’t real.
Whats gross and condescending is looking at people who need mental help then saying “no they dont” simply because you don’t like them. You’re a moron who wants to feel better than another group of people and can’t see past your own dislike to actually solve a damn problem. If you don’t want it to be solved just say so. Just say “id rather do nothing an keep watching schools get shot up so I can look down on a group”. Your beliefs sound a lot more like a psychopath than beliefs that try to make it so incels dont exist anymore. So I repeat, you’re a moron.
Also if you’re outrage demands no solutions but to ignore the problem, then it’s exactly performative, because you don’t want to change anything, you just want to yell. Tell me whats more performative then outrage with no change?
This was a well composed response but it doesn’t change the fact that nobody cares about incel mental health. And they shouldn’t because incels don’t really matter. Forget them. They are so far down the list of groups that need support it’s laughable. They are a joke and should be regarded as such. Your recognition of incels empowers them which warrants suspicion.
Also, your faith in mental health professionals is concerning. Are you, by chance, Canadian?
They are so far down the list of groups that need support it’s laughable.
Are you somehow thinking that “Giving incels help” means “enable them to continue being assclowns”? Because that’s the only way I can make sense of what you’re writing.
Giving potential offenders help in the form of enabling them to form relationships which aren’t abusive is helping not just incels, but also the people they would victimise. This isn’t a zero-sum game helping them to get their shit together is a win-win scenario.
Thank you. It’s not like they’re getting “special incel” mental health, its literally just normal mental health treatment that we have to find a way to get to them. Everyone here seems to think therapists are going to star talking like podcast bros, no, we just need more mental health everywhere, and that somehow pisses them off. Inhumane fucks.
Unfamiliar with him personally, and the phrase ‘podcast bro’ left a lot of vagueness so that’s on me, but in my mind when I said podcast bros I was meaning the ones who try to outright justify the maladaptive responses rather than address the root traumas, names like Tate and other unmentionables, and I hope hes a far cry from that kind of podcast since it seems hes a real psychiatrist.
If someone wants to adopt the overall podcast style in a professional and healthy way, to me that becomes more an example of ‘meeting people where they’re at’. Which is necessary and best practice in lots of Mental Health and Social Work situations. Everyone struggling with MH deserves to be met where they are at IMO, if it was easy for everyone to just walk into a therapists office, my guess is many more would do it, and we wouldn’t see rising MH issues across almost all strata of society.
Your recognition of incels empowers them which warrants suspicion.
Sure bud. Recognizing problems is bad, and ignoring them is how we fix them. Huge brain take. If you really need find a group to feel superior to, you do you, but I suggest therapy and a better world view as a healthy alternative. You seem more eager to let the problem perpetuate, which warrants ACTUAL suspicion.
it’s on them to fix themselves. not society. I’m alone, divorced, but I still don’t blame women or society. that’s the incel’s problem: lack of personal accountability, entitlement to a woman, society blaming.
it takes two to make a relationship, and I’m tired of my fellow man being offended at having to work at having a relationship
Nobody is stopping them from seeing a psychologist except the psychologists own extortionist pricing. Mental illness is not their fault, but it’s the individual’s responsibility.
Incels aren’t a problem for regular people. They only really exist in social media which is, obviously, not real life and cannot hurt you. Unless, you want them to? Did a troll hurt your feelings? Did he call you a cunt on Tinder? Did they call you “bud” in a sassy reply? You gave them power by being so fragile and now you want to give them more recognition. 80% of incels will grow out of it. This article, and you, are validating Jordan Peterson. Congratulations, you’re an incel ally.
Malignant misogyny isn’t mental illness.
We can address problems with male alienation, isolation, and loneliness without having to coddle terrorist reactionaries.
No but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t need addressing
that depends on what you mean by addressing - there’s a ton of apologism for incels, as if they’re being persecuted.
https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2021/07/12/political-discrimination-as-civil-rights-struggle/
So yeah, there’s a spectrum here and women accepting abusive and misogynist partners is definitely in the right wing playbook.
Providing mental help does not equal women accepting abusive partners, how tf did you make that mental leap?
Edit: Upon reread, I see that you were genuine, and I actually do need to check and correct myself. Apologies.
did you read the link or just jump into the comments with a rageon? because the link explains how the right wing thinks of this shit. I didn’t make it up, they did.
My bad, I assumed we were actually staying on topic - getting incels mental help. I’ll correct myself and assume from now on that any comments that fail to make sense are bad-faith attempts to co-opt a post.
Edit: Upon reread, I see that you were genuine, and I actually do need to check and correct myself. I apologize.
yeah I got that. that’s why I responded:
that depends on what you mean by addressing
because there’s a wide array of responses and I’m genuinely curious to learn what the OP of this thread meant. Not because I was attacking their premise, but because there’s past history of this tact - that the world should accommodate a percentage of the population who have shown misogynistic tendencies. To which I say: nah. nope. naw.
I apologize. I’ve been up for twenty-four hours, the last twelve of which were on a delayed and then stranded bus in a snow storm. I was taking out my frustrations on you, and was needlessly snarky.
Upon reread, I see that you were genuine, and I actually do need to check and correct myself. I’ll leave my earlier comments up with an edit.
Really living up to your third ideal there. Genuine respect for acknowledging fault in an internet argument
Why would I mean apologism? They need their worldview reprogramming because their current worldview is misogynistic and false. Reprogramming would include comprehensive challenging of negative attitudes and modelling of correct, non-misogynistic beliefs. It should be done by people with psychological training because they have the skills and knowhow needed to reprogramme someone’s thinking but it doesn’t particularly need mental health professionals or collusive, misplaced sympathy.
I provided a link to the line of thought. If that’s not you, great. But that doesn’t mean it’s not real.
deleted by creator
I think you’ll find that when you have what you need and dissolving that which you need not, there’s way less room for crap like racism and the -phobias
No but it can absolutely be a trauma response.
What trauma? listening to Jordan Peterson? If being rejected makes you hate women, then you were an entitled asshole to begin with. Nobody is owed affection, companionship, or romance.
This attitude is an insult to lonely
menpeople everywhere, who everyday cope with romantic failure without regressing into a chud. Incels are deplorable people; fuck 'em.Sigh. Just say you don’t know shit about mental health and move on with your performative outrage for any time you hear the word incel. I don’t have time to teach an idiot about trauma informed perspectives and it’s clear you’re not looking to learn anything, so I’m going to ask you to shut up and listen to the mental health professionals, like the one’s in the article who did the study. Because your little rage fit over incels is NOT more informed than studies conducted by professionals, and in fact is much more regressive so congrats for a perspective that make the problem you pretend to care about worse. Must feel nice to teach those incels a lesson though I’m sure you showed them.
Performative outrage is Lemmy’s kink
For real, like damn, if you want there to be less incels, well we gotta fix it, and unless their personal solution is to just round em up and throw em in camps, then maybe we have to listen to the people who spent time studying this. Shocking. I swear they just wanna feel mad and superior.
it’s on them to fix themselves. not society. I’m alone, divorced, but I still don’t blame women or society. that’s the incel’s problem: lack of personal accountability, entitlement to a woman, society blaming.
it takes two to make a relationship, and I’m tired of my fellow man being offended at having to work at having a relationship
So in one, direct, uninterrupted, comment chain we went from
to
Geez lemmy.
Mental illness isn’t your fault, but it’s your responsibility.
How’s that working out for society?
you can’t force change in another’s mind. They have to be willing.
https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2021/07/12/political-discrimination-as-civil-rights-struggle/
it’s not their fault, it’s a civil rights struggle.
Literally not a single person in this discussion is making that argument. I’m confused as to why you keep posting that as if it’s some kind of gotcha. Incels are bad, they need to go away. Unless you want to start up a Gestapo to round them up and murder them, they need to be rehabilitated somehow. Like better mental healthcare and eliminating the stigma around receiving it.
Many tankies on Lemmy, throwing people in camps would probably get upvoted
many machines on IX.
What’s that got to do with the price of rice? You really think the only people who disdain incels are the tankies?
Got news for ya bud, that’s fucked.
incels keep shooting up schools, reason enough for me to dislike them.
So don’t you want to take steps to stop that or do you want to ignore it and just hope schools stop getting shot up?
I didn’t say that, I said I dislike them. Just as I dislike idiots like you who jump to the dumbest conclusions automatically.
This is a really gross and condescending take. Outrage over incels isn’t performative, and if you think so you’re either stupid or a psychopath. Just because you don’t personally face threats of bodily harm doesn’t mean it isn’t real.
Go outside.
Whats gross and condescending is looking at people who need mental help then saying “no they dont” simply because you don’t like them. You’re a moron who wants to feel better than another group of people and can’t see past your own dislike to actually solve a damn problem. If you don’t want it to be solved just say so. Just say “id rather do nothing an keep watching schools get shot up so I can look down on a group”. Your beliefs sound a lot more like a psychopath than beliefs that try to make it so incels dont exist anymore. So I repeat, you’re a moron.
Also if you’re outrage demands no solutions but to ignore the problem, then it’s exactly performative, because you don’t want to change anything, you just want to yell. Tell me whats more performative then outrage with no change?
That was completely incoherent and makes a hell of a lot of assumptions. I didn’t say half of what you’re crediting me with.
You’re unproductive. And not even addressing what my actual comment was about.
This was a well composed response but it doesn’t change the fact that nobody cares about incel mental health. And they shouldn’t because incels don’t really matter. Forget them. They are so far down the list of groups that need support it’s laughable. They are a joke and should be regarded as such. Your recognition of incels empowers them which warrants suspicion.
Also, your faith in mental health professionals is concerning. Are you, by chance, Canadian?
Are you somehow thinking that “Giving incels help” means “enable them to continue being assclowns”? Because that’s the only way I can make sense of what you’re writing.
Giving potential offenders help in the form of enabling them to form relationships which aren’t abusive is helping not just incels, but also the people they would victimise. This isn’t a zero-sum game helping them to get their shit together is a win-win scenario.
Thank you. It’s not like they’re getting “special incel” mental health, its literally just normal mental health treatment that we have to find a way to get to them. Everyone here seems to think therapists are going to star talking like podcast bros, no, we just need more mental health everywhere, and that somehow pisses them off. Inhumane fucks.
Vaguely gestures at Dr. K
Unfamiliar with him personally, and the phrase ‘podcast bro’ left a lot of vagueness so that’s on me, but in my mind when I said podcast bros I was meaning the ones who try to outright justify the maladaptive responses rather than address the root traumas, names like Tate and other unmentionables, and I hope hes a far cry from that kind of podcast since it seems hes a real psychiatrist.
If someone wants to adopt the overall podcast style in a professional and healthy way, to me that becomes more an example of ‘meeting people where they’re at’. Which is necessary and best practice in lots of Mental Health and Social Work situations. Everyone struggling with MH deserves to be met where they are at IMO, if it was easy for everyone to just walk into a therapists office, my guess is many more would do it, and we wouldn’t see rising MH issues across almost all strata of society.
Sure bud. Recognizing problems is bad, and ignoring them is how we fix them. Huge brain take. If you really need find a group to feel superior to, you do you, but I suggest therapy and a better world view as a healthy alternative. You seem more eager to let the problem perpetuate, which warrants ACTUAL suspicion.
deleted by creator
it’s on them to fix themselves. not society. I’m alone, divorced, but I still don’t blame women or society. that’s the incel’s problem: lack of personal accountability, entitlement to a woman, society blaming.
it takes two to make a relationship, and I’m tired of my fellow man being offended at having to work at having a relationship
I’ve got this everybody.
Ahem.
Clap
There you go. Your one, single congratulations.
Can you get out of the way now? Give psychologists the space to do their god damn job?
Nobody is stopping them from seeing a psychologist except the psychologists own extortionist pricing. Mental illness is not their fault, but it’s the individual’s responsibility.
Incels aren’t a problem for regular people. They only really exist in social media which is, obviously, not real life and cannot hurt you. Unless, you want them to? Did a troll hurt your feelings? Did he call you a cunt on Tinder? Did they call you “bud” in a sassy reply? You gave them power by being so fragile and now you want to give them more recognition. 80% of incels will grow out of it. This article, and you, are validating Jordan Peterson. Congratulations, you’re an incel ally.
tell that to the fucking incels that keep shooting up schools.
I’m not entirely sure they’re fully unrelated either though.