You are still not understanding. EU law doesn’t protect you from having to pay for goods and services. EU law just banned tools like adblock detection, because you have a right to privacy under data protection law.

It’s like going to the store and hiding a pack of chewing gums in your pocket. If a store employee accuses you of stealing, they have no legal basis to force you to show the gum. They don’t have elevated law enforcement rights. Your pocket is private.

In the same way, google is not allowed to act on the information, that you use adblock. It’s still violating their TOS, which you ACCEPT by accessing their platform. Since we don’t have a petty internet police, nobody will proscecute you for it.

Immorality only lies in circumventing ads via third party solutions. By that, you don’t follow the contract, you have no right to consume their content, then.

I think that’s morally quite okay… well, compared to people’s general mindset in this thread.

But still, think about your creators without YouTube. Where do they go? Nebula? Maybe something like that would work. Likely, if YT is no more. Would that change anything? Not really. There will always be problems, the bigger something is, the worse it gets.

Also, I don’t understand your reference, but that’s okay.

The nutella butter thing was kind of a meme, bit kf ragebait. It’s a shit comparison, on purpose. It’s so shit, you should understand my point through that.

IDK maybe I’m bad at english or something, but this is exactly my point. Either you pay, or you watch ads. Both is okay, they get paid. I just don’t think YouTube with ads is a better deal than Premium, due to the amount of videos and therefore ads a regular person watches on the daily.

Watching with ads is completely fine. I just cannot justify watching 15-30 seconds of ads for a single video (it’s probably more nowadays).

I actually did say just about that in my post, so I don’t see how you disagree with me.

There’s still people doing that. In fact, that’s like 90% I’d say.

I think there’s SmartTube for smartTv’s. Not sure how parental control stuff works.

Yeah, Nebula is great. But other than being not Google, their platform works in similar ways. You pay, you get content… I mean, how could they even change that anyway?

As of now, Lemmy is still quite niche. People wouldn’t generate a high, stable income on Lemmy sized platforms. It’s fine if it’s just for fun, but it’s not really viable as a full business.

Streaming platforms that compete with YT conform to most exactly the same conditions. They need some form of income.

I think you misunderstood. Them making money trough straight payments AND through ad revenue are both completely fine incomes.

However, there is no morality in denying them both while still benefiting from their goods and services. You’d support my argument if it was about some local busines. For some odd reason this shifts peoples perspecives. Someone offers something and says “hey it’s not for free, but I won’t actually know if you paid or not” (well YouTube does know, but that’s secondary)… It’s not right to deny them their pay. There are no consequences to it, but you know that it’s not sustainable if everybody thinks like you.

I think you misunderstood. Them making money trough straight payments AND through ad revenue are both completely fine incomes.

However, there is no morality in denying them both while still benefiting from their goods and services. You’d support my argument if it was about some local busines. For some odd reason this shifts peoples perspecives. Someone offers something and says “hey it’s not for free, but I won’t actually know if you paid or not” (well YouTube does know, but that’s secondary)… It’s not right to deny them their pay. There are no consequences to it, but you know that it’s not sustainable if everybody thinks like you.

I think you misunderstood. Them making money trough straight payments AND through ad revenue are both completely fine incomes.

However, there is no morality in denying them both while still benefiting from their goods and services. You’d support my argument if it was about some local busines. For some odd reason this shifts peoples perspecives. Someone offers something and says “hey it’s not for free, but I won’t actually know if you paid or not” (well YouTube does know, but that’s secondary)… It’s not right to deny them their pay. There are no consequences to it, but you know that it’s not sustainable if everybody thinks like you.

If your answer to those questions is no…

You clearly know my stance about consumption of goods and services. I wouldn’t say no to that.

Alphabet is a for profit company. They have every right to be. If they do something, it’s to generate income in some way, at some point. Google Maps is here for a multitude of reasons. User data is what comes to mind. They also take sponsorship money. Be a restaurant, pay money to be on top of the “restaurants in x city” results. GSuite has a business model, the free model also tries to make you stay with Google. Of course this stuff can cost money. Of course it’s also fine if they absolutely milk you for your personal data, as long as you agree, which in the past (and future) has been a problem… not topic of the day.

If they charge money (or ad consumption) for something and I don’t feel like paying, I’m not using. This is the gist of it.

Explain how it isn’t. If you’re happy about removing mid to longform video content from the internet, yeah, whatever mate. I don’t think I have an argument to disarm this attack, other than the fact that you stamd with a very small group of people.

If creators decide to use another platform, the other platform will also only exist aslong as people either consume ads or pay money, which, in your argument, wouldn’t happen.

If creators decide to create individual small group platforms, have fun in border gore. People will not find nearly as many interesting videos with just curious browsing. Plus, I don’t see many creators surciving that. Plus, I don’t see many small creators rising in that economy.

I’m not sure if Linus Tech Tips agree with me, but from context, I’ll assume so. Anyway, the free market isn’t a real argument to me. All it tells me is that YouTube and most big creators have a solid business model.

My argument consists of basically two aspects:

Paying money for Youtube content is better value than watching ads for YouTube content. Your time and to an extent mental state is, for 95% of users, worth more than that money.

Not paying money and not watching ads is not sustainable and morally reprehensible. Their service doesn’t finance itself if nobody grants it any income. It they demand a compensation for their goods and services, you are to either compensate them or forego the offer. You cannot just assume that a bunch of other people compensate for the lost income through you. It morally doesn’t work like that. If you do that, you better be okay with financially stablr people stealing in grocery stores too.

Yeah I did it the other day on my lunch break.

Well, the F16 is called Prius and shooting down the F16 with an RPG is called grabbing McD from the drive through window. But you know, I was really far from the window and had to open the door to step out with one foot.

By extension, air cooling is global thermal mass cooling, which, by extension is radiative cooling, which by extension is universal entropy cooling or whatever you’d call that.

The median house proce in Oklahoma is super low. Try finding a home in the west.

20k will not get you a 3 bedroom home. Do you by chance live in West Virginia? Their median home values is under 200k, and even then, 20k won’t get you there. Trust me homeboy, 20k will not get you far, not even in the cheapest of regions.

The median US house value is 430k. The lowest legal downpayment is 3%, but that’s plain stupid. Financially, anything under 20% makes no sense. Your mortgage will be super high and you’ll have to pay for morgage insurance which you don’t have to do if you do a downpayment above 20%.

Also, if it’s so cheap and easy to buy a house, why isn’t everyone buying a house right now? The majority of millenials and forward are renting and you’re telling me half a year of rent is enough for them to get a house? Clearly they would have figured that one out by now.

Just so you understand my living standards. I do not own a car at all. I could financially afford one, but that wouldn’t be a sensible investment.

I can’t say I had such a civilized discussion on reddit. At least I can’t remember. Typical reddit discussions always felt a bit more filled with emotion, maybe hatred. Lots of shitposting too. Might have to do something with the more targeted demographic of Lemmy.

Something being a business model actually doesn’t mean it’s right. Dropshipping exists after all. Paying everyone for their services can’t be a viable solution either. The main business model here usually consists of “pay to upgrade”. If you don’t pay, it kinda works. If you do want to pay, it works really well. BitWarden is my personal hero in that regard. Their product works really well as freeware. It works even better when you pay for it. But I believe many paying users don’t even need the additional functionality, they just pay to give something back. Moral retribution so to speak.

I see how blocking ads on freeware isn’t morally wrong, I mean there’s not much that’s universally immoral. It’s quite the topic in ethics, deontology says some acts are universally bad or universally good, no matter the consequences. A common example is honesty: being honest is always good, but I’m sure you thought of a dozen examples where honesty might not be the “good” way.

I still do agree with you. Blocking ads in specific instances can be completely fine. I mean we could construct setups where not blocking ads might lead to nuclear war. But I truly believe that it’s fine in everyday use. You don’t wanna see ads, they annoy you, you don’t feel like paying with your time and brain cells. An individual avoiding ads is so inconsequential for everyone else involved, utilitaristically, that’s a net gain of happines. On the other hand, ethics is not a study about individual actions, that’s morals. I don’t believe that any ethics could realistically support such a choice in the grand scheme. Assuming everyone acts by those rules, buying advert slots is wasted money.

Luckily we are indiviudals and like you said a day ago, there’s enough people paying their taxes for you to evade them without consequences for either party.

I, in this instance, decided it’s not about the company per se, it’s more about the individual action. I’m no sucker for Nestlé, but you can’t argue that they don’t do good things as well. They are quite the big player in vegan meat alternatives and they actually do seem to put in quite the work to make sensible products in said category. They superficially seem to be sustainable and healthier than many other comparable products. Even if that’s not true, even if their products are shipped around the globe eleven times a day, it’s pushing for something that’s ecologically sensible. If they themselves don’t produce an ecological product, they still help to establish shelf space for other, more ecological products. So yeah, I’d buy a Nestlé product in that case. Even just to show Nestlé and the stores that such a product is in demand.

There’s other scenarios where I don’t act by the same logic simply because I’m a human and humans aren’t known for being all that logical after all.

I’m a capitalist consumer and I greatly profit from my financial situation each and every day. I do live in a way too big apartment after all, and plans for individual housing are on the way. Not very ethical in the grand scheme xD