https://queer-bolshevik.medium.com/the-aes-doctrine-wrong-then-wrong-now-a8666de371da

This is a good read. There is a pretty large socialist movement that seems to have the idea that to reach global socialism we need to defend every self proclaimed socialist state without asking any questions at all and hope they’ll get better over time.

Read my comments. I am not defending the genocide. Just not a big fan of the removal of any states or people. Your rage is directed in the wrong direction.

Thank you for correcting me in such a condescending way. Not everyone is a native speaker, doesn’t mean I don’t speak English.

Look at the comment I am replying to. The literally said Israel must go. What is that implicating? Certainly not Israel needs to be rehabilitated, like Nazi Germany, which is what I am advocating for here.

Reading your second paragraph, we seem to agree.

It’s the Comment I am replying to that seems to want Israel gone. How do you make that happen, without eradicating or displacing them (both of which is considered genocide)?

Thank God they didn’t gain the upper hand.

I think “Israel” needs to be demilitarized and dezionified so that they cannot hurt anyone else. The people responsible for the genocide and crimes against the Palestinian people need to be tried in a court. Let an international alliance govern the affairs of a new state of Palestinians and Jews willing to live together in piece. Everyone else who wants to continue the violence can fuck Off.

I don’t understand why I am being downvoted for this except that maybe some of these people screaming for peace here actually just want to reverse the killing.

Don’t go there. If people would’ve had these opinions on Germany after WW2 that would’ve went really bad. Germany has been rehabilitated not perfectly but imo rather well. I think it is possible for Israel/Palestine as well.

Or are you suggesting to genocide Israelis like their government is doing to Palestinians right now? That’d be pretty fucked up, don’t you think?

Imo there is an issue if you do nothing but increase minimum wage. You also need to limit price inflation and make sure the companies don’t just return the increased cost to the consumer. Then you’ll have gained nothing. Example. Burger grill pays their workers 10$/hr - burger costs 4$. Now you force the burger grill to pay workers 15$/hr, a 50% increase and they go, alright, burgers now cost 6$. Most places do this and the worker, even though they now earn 50% more, can’t actually buy more because cost of living has increased equally. We need regulations on how companies operate their profit or actually get back to a point where competition would punish pricing like that. But somehow with only a handful owning everything that is kinda fucked.

I don’t understand why you feel the need to be hostile and make this about white men. This is about civilization theory.

If your point was that white civilizations made the world into the mess it is right now, I wholeheartedly agree with you. It is however not the point of my inquiry. I was generally curious about bigger societies that managed to stay relatively non hierarchial which would result in an equal share of ressources (what this whole thread was about) From what I have read, all bigger “successful” civs developed a strong hierarchy which resulted in a big wealth gap as well and/or built their empire through expansion and as a result slaves and POW who granted them free labour to built their infrastructure. Some examples:

Egypt (not white) China (not white) Khmer (not white) Japan (not white) Osman empire (not white) Persian (not white) Babylon (not white) India (not white)

Imo indigenous tribes are not helpful in this discussion because I am interested in examples or solutions for big societies and tribal structures are very different because people usually all know each other over 1 or two axis which strongly discouraged selfish behavior (it got you shunned).

I am very interested in African and ancient American civilizations but there is not a lot of unbiased literature out there (To my knowledge - which is why I asked for more info)

No offense taken. But I am a bit worries sometimes about the hostility towards people asking questions.

Tbh. So far I mostly read about western, Arab and Asian civilizations and there really aren’t many examples when you go bigger in size of small tribal living. In my opinion, tribal life is a lot different and naturally more non hierarchial because mostly everybody knows everyone and if you act too selfish you’ll be shunned. From what I read it becomes problematic as soon as the civ reaches a high number of people. Then they tended to get expansionist and hierarchial which resulted in either slaves or prisoners of war with lower social status or some kind of caste system.

I will read into the dawn of everything and the other link you provided on the other thread and am happy for more fodder. I will be traveling through south America soon and wanna read up upon their ancient history anyway.

Thanks for taking the time to look it up and edit!

Would you care to give an example of a successful society of the past that achieved what you are describing without slaves or other means of super cheap labor. I can’t think of a single one but I am very interested.

Just look around here. Most of the people here are part of the hate club. Constantly you see posts wishing the worst and horrible deaths on the people they disagree with or who commit crimes/do horrible shit/are rich, and they are being celebrated. ACAB, Trump should off himself, eat the rich, celebrating people drowning on their yachts… But hey, it’s not hate speech if you are on a moral high ground right? Most people here probably agree, that prisons are for suffering, just that so often the wrong people are suffering.

America needs a functioning justice system and people abusing their power is horrible. But you need to fight it by enforcing a system and punishments according to a set of laws. There is no emotion or revenge in justice.

The US will never stop supporting Israel. They are too dependent on it geopolitically. I believe we may see some more inner political movement against Netanjahu supported by certain US agencies. He will not survive this conflict as prime minister. This will of course not help Palestinians in the long run but it may help with a ceasefire and as a result help the democrats in the upcoming election which would be the main goal right now.

The idea of this super moderated availability of books sounds super great when you write it out like that. But there aren’t even enough teachers around to teach the bare minimum. I don’t know how you imagine that would be manageable.

Side point. If Mein Kampf should be accessible, do you think so should all the hate speech and misinformation everyone tries to ban from social media ?

The court doesn’t give a shit, though. Look at what’s happening with the international court.

Oh, and also, the police is supporting me with weapons to fuck you up if you try to chase me from your lawn.

Oh I am sorry. I thought I was talking to someone sharing the consensus we formed as an international community after world war 2 to keep a status quo regarding borders (except for some peaceful special cases) represented by the UN and to stop all the useless expansionist fighting all through history.

This fighting you apparently approve and are completely fine with stronger countries just invading others for expansion of their territory. That is a very shitty world you want to live in.

Just some examples of what you are apparently super fine with:

Russia completely conquering Ukraine and that being accepted by everyone. China annexing Taiwan and while we are at it why not just most of SEA as well. The Republicans just fighting their way to control of the US if they happen to lose the election. I mean people fight and who wins is right, right?

In my example above I shouldn’t even bother slowly creeping onto your land but just fight you for it and if I win I got a free new home. Sounds like a utopia, doesn’t it?

Just for the record. I am not even primarily for a Palestinian state. But it is a way better alternative than to just kill an entire population because you can’t live in peace with them. And I am aware that it’s not just Jewish peoples fault that this apparently doesn’t work. But annihilation is never a solution.

Would you be okay with me moving into your garden and building a hut there and threatening you when you protest ? And when you silently let me live in your garden I bring all my family and friends and build more and start taking your rooms because you know, I need the place and some ancestor of mine told me God promised me your garden. Would you maybe wanna hit me if I don’t stop?

This is not about the question of genocide though. I think we mainly agree on that happening and rightfully demand it to stop.

This is about the hostages and the cause of their death. And frankly we don’t know. Because both sources on that are incredibly biased and obviously pursue their own agendas.

And rightfully one should avoid just blindly believing either of them like the original comment here does just because it “makes sense” to them. That literally translates to: “I have confirmation bias so I believe this”

Of course kids don’t have basic common sense. It develops with experience and from the things we teach them. That’s why you don’t leave them on social media completely unsupervised. They learn stupid shit from influencers because they don’t have any filters yet.

There is a reason kids don’t have full rights. Don’t judge them like they’re adults. It’s our responsibility to protect them.

Radiator Springs is the name of the city in Pixar movie ‘cars’

It wants to stop staring at a screen all day and go outside.

That kind of thinking is exactly what caused the genocide under Pol pot in Cambodia. For the working class utopia cleanse everything like treating cancer (they used the weeds and roots analogy, but is more or less the same). It killed more than 20% of the population