SEE SECOND EDIT DOWN BELOW
Lets not beat around the bush here, lots of people like to look at boobs and dicks.
Lemmynsfw was looking like a good place to go, but reading the “Loli” announcement thread where they equate drawn child porn to petite women, its clear the owner is not the right person to be hosting a NSFW instance for the majority of people.
Is there anywhere else that people can recommend?
There is undoubtably a need for such an instance. Can we discuss this like adults?
edit: UPDATE
I’m taking it as a backtrack, but it’s still not an instance I want to associate with.
Lots of people keen to offer their opinion of drawn picture of naked kids, haven’t seen any alternatives though
Edit 2: At this point I think their updated rules are good. It took a bit to get there, but in the end they appear to be taking a hard stance. Hopefully this is enforced.
I dont think it was a case of “whoops bad English” like they are suggesting, I think it was a total 180 backflip. This doesnt really instill confidence in the admins IMO, but im happy that they have made the right decision in regards to allowed content. Hopefully this is was just some early wobblies and the community can move on.
That is wild, I made an account on there last night so I was curious to find the announcement post. Evidently lots of people are quite outraged. I also noticed as of a few minutes ago a clarification post has been made: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826
To quote:
I have so much respect for @yay@lemmynsfw.com but i can’t believe how poorly he wrote the update message, lol. Here is what’s happening; - loli/shota are BANNED and not okay in any way. - IRL kids are BANNED OBVIOUSLY because no shit. - characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage are ALLOWED because as an instance the votes decided that banning all of it was destructive, and differentiating between them can be impossible. The line will continue to be up to the admins discretion, though we always appreciate input. And beyond this, individual communities can decide whether they want to outright ban all flat-chested etc. porn to be safe. Any other clarifications necessary, just ask below. Thanks for reading. ~RestfulI’m not sure what to make of all this; it’s a bit iffy to me so I’ll be on the lookout for another NSFW related Lemmy community. There were a couple of folks in the comments of the original announcement post stating they’re gonna make their own instance so we’ll see how that pans out.
loli/shota are BANNED and not okay in any way.
characters who are petite/young-looking are ALLOWED
These are contradictory statements. that’s literally what the words loli/shota mean.
Lolli is a very stretchable word you can technically see a 18 year old flat chested, short woman as lolli
loli/shota haters are gonna lose their shit when they find out about oppai loli. if loli referred to minors, such a thing simply couldn’t exist lol.
the reality is that loli/shota have nothing to do with age.
uzuki-chan XD strictly speaking lolli…
yup. people hating on this clearly ave no idea what they’re talking about. like there’s a clear distinction between actual anime children and loli content. and there’s plenty of people who like the latter and not the former. it’s not hard to understand.
Lolicon does depict minor characters engaged in sexual acts. Whether that is exclusively or not doesn’t really matter. Although it doesn’t surprise me to see you here defending it. You have trash fucking takes on every topic you engage in.
Beehaw was right to defederate many instances and so should we. Beehaw is crazy but not that crazy.
Defederate these instances, what are you so afraid of? Some people here are going full throttle on the freedom of blabla, don’t listen to them. Ban this stuff, do you really want Kbin to be known as “this network”? Do you want this reputation? I don’t. If you want more then register to another instance which accepts this stuff but don’t drag all our infrastructure with you.
Federating this content puts the servers of Ernest in danger.
edit: downvote me more, I take it as a badge of honor because I know who it’s coming from.
I want kbin to be known as a network that is neutral and federates with all other instances, allowing users to decide what they wish to see. the second something is defederated/blocked, it becomes a slippery slope of crying to block this or that, and taking away power from the users.
I want kbin to be known as a network that is neutral and federates with all other instances, allowing users to decide what they wish to see.
There has to be a line though.
IMO, unless it’s explicitly illegal, people should be free to share/say/discuss it. let people decide what they wish to see on their own and curate their own experience.
I believe illustrated child porn is illegal here in Canada, as well as other countries (not going to google it though). Seems like it isn’t in the US? I find it kind of shocking that so many people don’t see an issue with it, tbh.
Because here in the US marrying off children is normal.
Its not an issue for those you can seperate what they think is ok from what they think should be allowable due to peoples personal freedom. A drawing is a creation of an artist from some sort of media. When its created, no one gets hurt. When its consumed, no one gets hurt. Will I be a consumer. Nope but I also believe in legalization of prositution without planning to go to one. I was for marijuana legalization and have never used it. Rights are not just about what I think is fine.
loli/shota aren’t “illustrated child porn”.
And which legal system would we be using here?
server host’s laws. the goal being to avoid legal takedowns. I’m a free speech maximalist. The only thing that should ever be taken down IMO is nonconsensual nsfw photos/videos. So cp, revenge porn, deepfakes, etc. along with literal off-topic spam (spammy affiliate links).
Well, what if do want that? What should be of my sever that is set up in a country where said content was legal? I’m well aware I’m making more of a hypothetical statement here, but I believe that kinda stuff doesn’t really have a place being blatantly public to everyone by default. I can empathize with free speech but I do believe there needs to be at least some sort of soft barriers.
Also, “avoiding legal takedowns” is kinda sus. I’m sure you didn’t mean anything by it but it really isn’t a strong opener when talking about porn.
What should be of my sever that is set up in a country where said content was legal?
If you wish to see such content and such content is legal in your area, then you should be free to have an instance that does that. Personally I would support defederating from such a service. These are not merely a preference of content, but rather things that have actual harm to actual people.
but I believe that kinda stuff doesn’t really have a place being blatantly public to everyone by default.
“federated” and “public to everyone by default” are two entirely different things. I agree, that nsfw content of any kind shouldn’t be public front page “to everyone by default”. That doesn’t mean we should defederate from nsfw instances.
Also, “avoiding legal takedowns” is kinda sus. I’m sure you didn’t mean anything by it but it really isn’t a strong opener when talking about porn.
Keep in mind that legality of nsfw content varies wildly per region. For example, japan explicitly bans any nsfw materials showing genitals that are not blurred/pixelated. So if a server is hosted in japan, then it’s expected that that sort of content (uncensored genitals) would be banned/defederated in order to stay compliant with the laws of the region. Similarly, a server hosted in the middle east might be expected to ban/defederate from instances home to imagery of muhammad, or of nsfw lgbt content.
I saw this person defending exploding-heads (Nazi instance) earlier so I imagine the line looks much different for them than for you.
It’s sad to see that there are people who see thing as all or nothing. Life requires nuance and every situation needs to be analyzed and treated differently otherwise we end up with blanket policies that are ineffective and even punish those it seeks to protect. Free speech is great but it ends when it becomes a detriment to society or in this case a vulnerable group. I don’t have kids and don’t care to be around them but the idea that someone would find sexual gratification from the image of a child-like body is abhorrent. Also it’s a good indication that these people themselves experienced childhood sexual assault and that needs to be dealt with in a healthy manner, not by normalizing the act.
This is not a situation that requires nuance.
Who is being put out by rules that disallow this content?
I think each person should be allowed to choose what that line is for them, and not have that line chosen for them.
Disclaimer: I was a victim of child SA, I do not support or condone SA. But I DO support pedophiles who have never and will never act on their desires having a SAFE NONVIOLENT FICTIONAL outlet for their perverted fantasies, if anything so they don’t take that shit out on innocent children.
A friend (therapist) of mine worked with pedophiles and the story they told them is that consuming that content leads to more and more desire to actual assault a child.
I’m no expert in that field, but I personally would rather see such content banned and people that look for it to be served ads that help them.
Yes. This is exactly like study after study about violence in video games. Consumption of violent content in video games leads to more and more desire to actually be violent to people.
Is this you u/spez on some mission to destroy the federated world before it had a chance to grow up?
If that kind of content was allowed here I’d delete my account. No, one wants that kind of trouble.
You wrote:
Guess other instances do not care regardless even if its correctly flagged and tagged and everything. I had a discussion about this topic with the mods of feddit.de, but they are firm to block whole instances if there is any NSFW community on it. No matter what. I am now on kbin and deleted my account there.
Why don’t you open an account on one of those instance instead of pushing it in our throats?
No one wants to shove petite Asian ladies into your throat. Just don’t subscribe to those communities/magazines. That NSFW magazines appear in All is nothing but a technical issue.
Why the hell do you think having 5 accounts so you can subscribe to everything you want is acceptable.Everyone will note that you never address the pedo data ending up hosted by Ernest if we don’t defederate. You never talk about that, it’s always about you, you you. Well sorry for you but you are not alone and there are real-life implications to hosting this content.
This pedo content has nothing to do on this server.
Just don’t subscribe to those communities/magazines.
No, YOU go out and get your illegal content from the source.
It’s true, drawn child porn is still child porn in many juristictions, e.g, in the UK it’s explicitly prohibited. https://jd-solicitors.co.uk/guide-to-uk-pornography-laws/#:~:text=UK%20Child%20pornography%20laws&text=The%20first%20is%20indecent%20images,%2C%20and%20computer%2Dgenerated%20images
You can try and argue in court that the server you’re legally responsible for hosting child porn is permitted but…good luck.No one here speaks about child pornography but you.
Go run your own instance, you will be able to federate with whoever you want. Your instance = your responsibility.
Again, no one is talking about child porn beside you. Everything lemmynsfw allows is legal in any jurisdiction. And everything it disallows like Loli and shota is clearly something no one wants to see here on kbin or lemmy even if it is legal in many parts of the world. The line is right there and lemmynsfw never challaned it.
It’s always the fucking furries
🤡
One of my biggest concerns with these kind of platforms is that they’ll end up being a home for creeps and criminals due to a lack of rule enforcement. I don’t want to be ashamed to use this platform or anyone to suspect me for it.
I’ll just point out that I never suggested anyone defederate from anyone.
As a side point though, lots of places had already defederated from lemmynsfw.I just want a NSFW instance that doesn’t cater to pseudo child porn
Like I am not interested in seeing NSFW but I don’t care if it’s around… people drawing kids being raped (kids can’t consent even if they claim they’re 100 years old) is disturbing and objectively wrong. Someone masturbating to these images adds a whole different level of mental health ussue compared to someone who just watches disturbing content for enjoyment without the sexual aspect. If it were legal these same people would be extremely likely to not only watch real CP or even engage in it otherwise they wouldn’t resort to loopholes.
I think the beauty of the feddiverse is that WE WILL get another more curated nsfw community. Right now its early and messy, we’re figuring our communities out. I think we’ll be alright.
Absolutely.
All the apologists have come out guns blazing.
My post was just asking for alternatives.I never suggested defederation, or called for a boycott or anything. I just want to see some boobs every now and then without having to scroll past drawings of naked children
The fact this post has so many apologists and people defending the instance is disappointing
You can block whole communities as user. Personally, I’m not interested in Loli, but their users voted to allow it.
They voted? How? How many people are even in that community so far? Seems like the kind of thing to revisit as it grows.
I can’t answer because I was banned for saying allowing loli was a bad move, lol
Ah so it isn’t so much that you don’t want to associate with it, it’s more that you got banned so can’t.
Did you say that you thought it was a ‘bad move’ or did you go all guns blazing and start shouting about child porn?
saying loli is drawn child porn
:| loli does not refer to children. there are loli adults.
Some people would rather ignore Japanese culture and push their views on others. It is so strange to me that the west cannot tell drawings from reality.
I don’t even care about the ruling. I just hate that people keep conflating loli/shota with children when it really has nothing to do with that.
But yeah it’s wild how people have issues with drawings.
I know and agree. People will tell you characters like Tatsumaki from One Punch Man is “minor coded”. Rev Says Desu has great videos on these people freaking out over nothing.
The sad irony is that organizations that deal with actually helping stop actual predators have to tell people to stop reporting drawings because it’s flooding their tip boxes.
I’m a CSA survivor myself and the virtue signaling people do around this topic triggers me almost as much as abusers themselves. I don’t like people speaking for me, especially when they can’t tell the difference between a drawing and an actual person.
It’s not Japanese culture. I know a fair few Japanese friends who are disgusted by lolicon.
The fact is, if you’re drawing childlike characters and putting them in sexual situations… there’s something fucked there. Sure, they’re not real, but it’s still fucked up to be attracted to that in the first place. They look like children!
It’s Japanese culture in the same way guns are American culture. You don’t have to like every aspect of your culture, but Japan is still the place loli/shota was crystalized into an artform, and America is still the country with the most guns by an extremely wide margin.
I’ve seen people get called a “pedophile” for liking Konata Izumi, a 17-18 year old character from the series Lucky Star. They weren’t even called that because they were posting porn, they were called that because they liked to collect SFW art of her. Do you expect people to not create porn of her as well because someone might find it offensive however? It’s so absurd to me.
The first thing I learned in therapy for PTSD is that I will get triggered, I will never be able to avoid my triggers forever, and that it’s unhealthy to even try. I need to be able to handle triggers, which over time helps lessen their impact on my life. I don’t see why other people should be denied enjoying something that harms no one just because it puts me on edge.
Hi, I’m an actual full grown real life 30 year old adult. I look like a minor. Should I just not be allowed to date and have relationships with other adults?
If you can’t tell the difference between a small adult and an actual child, you have major issues.
I don’t think everyone would think of that as ‘drawn child porn’. Plenty of live action ‘school girl’ stuff out there and that usually gets a pass. Pretty much every amateur video is implied to be incestuous now, are they promoting having sex with school kids and incest?
Terms like ‘barely legal’ and ‘young teen’ are used all the time, do you think there aren’t people out there imagining those girls being younger than 18? If some Loli drawings are where you draw the line then it seems like an odd place to do so. Does nothing for me personally, I prefer drawings of young boys misbehaving, swearing and defecating /s (South Park).
I’m not here to argue about the nuance of drawn pictures of naked kids.
I don’t care. Lemmynsfw can do whatever they want.
The point is there is going to be NSFW instances, and im:
a) warning people not interested in that shit that lemmynsfw is not the place to go, and
b) asking if there are any other alternativesIn that case a simple ‘What are the best NSFW instances?’ would have sufficed perhaps with a line stating that you don’t enjoy hentai / loli. You cared about the nuance when you called it child porn despite knowing the actual genre is ‘loli’.
Big difference between something not being your cup of tea and full blown child porn accusations. I might not enjoy someone sending me an eggplant emoji but I wouldn’t call the police and say I’ve just been harassed by a drawn picture of a purple cock.
Hope you find an instance to your tastes and I hope you can get your questions answered in future without feeling the need to incite a mob.
No, I’m warning people who don’t want to see pictures of naked kids that the instance is cool with that content.
Hentai isn’t the issue. The issue is
We’re allowing non-IRL underage looking content
Most people don’t want that. If you do, more power to ya bud
Nice straw man. Hope you can find the actual IRL underage content you’re looking for rather than just drawings. See how that works?
Where is the straw man?
Warning people who dont want underage content on their feed?
Directly quoting the announcement title?
Saying most people dont want that content but if you do good for you?Literally none of those are strawmen
Well… we’re talking about some manga drawings which might just look like Funko pops with breasts to some but you decided to instead say that we’re irrefutably talking about ‘pictures of naked kids’, a massive oversimplification which makes your argument look stronger.
‘if you do then more power to ya bud’ to make it sound like I enjoy that content despite the fact that I’ve already said that it does nothing for me. A misrepresentation of my position.
That’s what makes it a straw man argument in my opinion.
Anyway thanks for the debate, I haven’t followed on with what happened in the rest of the thread and really regret engaging with it in the first place. Sorry if I offended you, it’s hard to get points across via text sometimes and I probably came off a bit strong.
None of this really affects me as I don’t use Lemmy for NSFW content, I like the platform though and don’t want to believe that it would be used for underage content so I guess we pretty much agree where it counts but came at it from different angles.
Peace and love
Yea look, I got a bit heated about it and I sincerely apologise for that.
Im glad I brought it up though, enough people have been pissed off about the decision that they seem to have taken a hard 180 on the topic, so alls well that ends well for the time being.
And yea I agree there are always different angles, and with so many people moving to a new platform for different reasons there is always going to be some butting heads.
Im just worried that the fediverse is going to take a turn and be overun by edgelords like what has happened with so many “reddit alternatives” in the past.
Anyway, peace and love for sure my dude/dudette
Just block these communitys, its nothing serious.
Actually, it is serious. That is the entire point.
This is so fucked up.
I was pretty shocked by m/random. It’s not a nsfw magazine and yet it is full of porn from lemmynsfw.com. I’m not anti porn, but I was a bit shocked as I’m just flicking through kbin at home.
You’re surprised that the internet is full of porn?
it’s kinda funny the people most up in arms about loli/shota stuff are also the ones telling people to not “kinkshame”.
OMFG this is why I hate the “you can’t kink shame bullshit” I have no fucking problem shaming pedos, necros and rapist, they deserve the utmost shame for the trash they are.
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loli/shota has nothing to do with pedos
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necro for fictional content is harmless, and rape is the most common kink among women; cnc is a thing.
but thanks for proving my point. no one is defending pedos here.
Yes, it does have to do with pedos, you are just unwilling to admit you are a pedo.
also I am not proving your point, obviously I am just fine with “kink shaming” that is the reason you are mad at me right now.
I’m not even into loli stuff so lol. if I date a man is he a pedo? is that how you think?
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I had to go find the thread being referenced, it’s here for anyone else who hasn’t seen it: https://kbin.social/m/lemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com/t/42348
I took the time to post my own thoughts in the thread, which I’ve reproduced here:
It seems a lot of people have very strong negative reactions to anything which is too close to children in pornography. I don't think that's an especially bad thing, but in my mind the only reason to be against minors in pornography is to protect those same minors from harm. As an analogy, I find scat porn disgusting. But that doesn't mean it should be banned, as long as all parties are able to consent and no harm is done. When it comes to non-child-coded drawings (though with childish proportions), I don't see the harm or lack of consent. And if that is the case, it doesn't matter what my personal feelings are about the content, it shouldn't be banned.Again, not here to discuss the nuance of drawn pictures of naked kids.
Not trying to shut down the instance.I don’t care.
I’m just warning people who don’t like that shit, that is most people, that the instance owner is cool with that content so if you aren’t into it then probably look elsewhere.
A secondary point was asking if there are any alternatives yet.
I know there will be, I’m just wondering if there isNo, it’s highly misleading: https://kbin.social/m/lemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com/t/42695/READ-THIS-clarification-on-the-decision-and-poll-results
Allowed are fictional content of characters where it becomes hard to exactly tell if they’re adult or not. Not obvious underage stuff.
The post title, direct quote
We’re allowing non-IRL underage looking content
I see you did not even bother to read the clarification, nor the original question.
