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Wait, what? Beehaw is defederated? I still see lots of post from Beehaw on my feed.
There is a post explaining the details here: https://lemmy.world/post/149743
Federation is a two-way connection. Beehaw shut off the incoming stream, essentially, so anyone commenting or posting on spaces from that instance will not be seen by users logged into Beehaw. However, the outgoing stream is still active so anything posted there that you subscribe to or visit from another instance can still be seen. Users on other instances can even comment in those threads, but users on Beehaw would not see those comments.
For me it helps to think of the instance you are logged into as the place you trust the most. Content from other sources can always come in, but you can choose to simply not see things you don’t want. This is a fundamental part of how the Fediverse works, for better or worse.
Cooool, I was wondering this. I had been curious if it was 1 party or 2 party federation; so someone can defederate, but it doesn’t “block” receipt of content, only the interaction with the blocked platform?
I believe that instances can independently choose whether to accept incoming or allow outgoing data, so there are multiple possible combinations.
That’s interesting. What happens if a lemmy user replies to a beehaw user’s comment from a lemmy instance? Does the beehaw user just never see it?
Yeah, but small correction: Beehaw only defederated from two specific instances of Lemmy, not the entire system. If you were engaging with a Beehaw community from lemmy.one or other instances that Beehaw is still federated with, everyone sees everything on both sides.
Also, if the Beehaw user really wanted to engage with the lemmy.world or other defederated instances, nothing is stopping them form creating an account on that instance (or any other instance federated with the desired community) and commenting or posting from there.
I believe beehaw only degenerated from lemmy. If you’re on kbin you can still see both.
Only from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, not with others AFAIK. The anouncementpost can be found here https://beehaw.org/post/567170
This is honestly interesting to watch play out, because one of the neat things about federation is that it allows for effectively chains and knots of information - Beehaw is more censored/curated at the moment while Kbin is more connected than anything because it’s bridging Lemmy World and Beehaw.
Lol every time I read an announcement by these guys it feels off-putting. I thought I was a progressive but reading this and the comments makes me feel like I am the furthest thing from progressive if this is what they believe. Every time they mention a safe space, I wonder if they are trying to make safe spaces seem like a joke because that’s the vibe I’m getting. Safe spaces are for victims, not for trying to create a great wall of beehaw “ideals.”
I really don’t see it in such a negative way. Being able to control what you allow and don’t allow seems like the whole idea of a federated system in my perspective, including defederation with other instances.
Everything is also new to everybody and these are also just some volumteers sharing their servers and bandwidth to host a place for people to chill. Finding a way to moderate the huge influx of people sounds like a challenge and I can see why they would make this choice (and I believe it’s temporary for now as well). I see Beehaw currently more like a phpbb forum that has it’s own thing. So far I’m liking the different communities beehaw, lemmy.world and kbin bring, each in their own way.
I guess I’m frustrated with the communities that decided to chose beehaw really, some of the big subs announced they would now be moderating a replacement community on beehaw. It makes me want to shake them and ask why the fuck did they pick beehaw. If beehaw wants to become a great firewall, whatever it only makes me never want an account on there because I want to choose which instances to interact with, not the admins. But now I would have to find new communities to replace the ones taken away by beehaw admins. Any communities I have created can’t be interacted by beehaw users and I can’t interact with any communities on beehaw. I’ve already read a comment about a person from beehaw who now can’t continue to mod a community on lemmy.world. The nuke action was not appropriate imo. The beehaw admins also refuse to delegate, they only want 4 people to comb through every single post and comment. This is insane for 4 people to do.
I also don’t see this as a temporary measure, they want the lemmy devs to implement the exact mod tools they want otherwise they won’t unblock my instance. I find that unlikely to happen any time soon, if ever, due to how open source projects work. Might as well as have told everyone it is permanent and they don’t care instead of giving a bs reason. Why would I bother making an account on a different server at this point when that server can easily be the next one beehaw blocks? At what point does beehaw decide to just defederate because they can’t handle interacting with other instances? I have taken the news very poorly and have nothing but disdain for the admins there.
some of the big subs announced they would now be moderating a replacement community on beehaw
I thought beehaw didn’t allow their users to create communities.
So pardon my ignorance but if you’re on lemmy and beehaw defederated, you wouldn’t be able to see any beehaw content, right?
I’m genuinely still trying to figure it all out still.,
I think so, but I;m not sure. Could also be the other way around. I’m still new to this as well.
You will see posts but you won’t be able to interact with any one outside of lemmy.world users. They can’t keep up with the number of users and have defederated from a huge number of instances.
My experience is that it’s more nuclear than that. On my Beehaw account I tried to post to a Lemmy.world community and it seemed to post, but when I logged into my Lemmy.world account that post wasn’t visible.
It appears a full severance.
I have no idea whats going on
i need a tutorial
I will stick to only one account. Too much accounts are pain.
Do any of you guys and gals know how to best check with which instances my account instance federates? I see https://lemmymap.feddit.de/ but omg I am not able to run this page on my PC :D
New here, does it mean my username propagated to other instances?
Lol. I can barely figure out one.
I made an account on feddit.de and I’m not even German (learning to be, though)
It was confusing at first
The confusion never went away. Beehaw defederated, so I understand that you would then have to create a specific Beehaw account in order to engage with Beehaw communities, but why would I want to as a Lemmy.world user, is what I’m confused about.
That’s not the most convenient though. You could have an account on any instance that’s not lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works and you’d be able to access both beehaw and Lemmyworld/shitjustworks
I got my account on lemm.ee and was wondering how the defederation affected me, good to know, thanks.
It doesn’t. Beehaw blocked LW and SIJW because of open sign ups and, what I assume, was people creating new accounts when their old one was banned.
If you’re not on any of those two instances or on beehaw, you’re not impacted.
Beehaw is sending a message, imho, that instances need take reasonable measures to ensure their users don’t repeatedly commit some sort of abuse.
This raises a question about the use case of user-only instances and community-only instances which might not be a bad idea.
why not lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works?
My understanding from the announcement post was because those are two large instances with open registration, and they want to be able to better vet new users to make sure they’re not trolls
Good luck to them vetting the entire internet. Hope they’ll have fun in their little super duper exclusive club house.
Lol, they were the first instance I tried to sign up for since they are large and loud. They interrogate you in order to make an account. “Why do you want to make an account on Beehaw?” Um, because I’m addicted to link aggregators and tired of Reddit? Does it fucking matter?
It matters to them, so I guess you are not the type of user they want. It’s annoying, but if they want their server to be more exclusive, they can do that. It is the beauty and the pain of federation.
¿Confuso? No… más bien un mini reto descubrir nuevas posibilidades exponenciales. Simple.
Will one account work on all the instances?
It gets more confusing when the instance you joined decides to unfederate and half of your subs stop working! Then you have to join a new instance and start over because subs nor usernames carry over.
Not gonna lie, it was confusing at first.
I hope this place gets better with time.
And this is why you roll your own instance just for auth
At this point I’m considering it. I wonder how much it costs.
I’m using a $6 a month digital ocean droplet. Should be plenty of juice for me and my friends.
I did it, but my buddy has a server with extra resources that he doesn’t care if I use and I already owned domains.
Say $20/yr for domain, Lemmy needs around 150MB of RAM and almost no CPU. You could easily do that for $5/mo. Slice up the domain renewal, call it $8.
So far, there are upsides and downsides.
The upsides, I can federate with anyone I want and it’s unlikely that they’ll defederate with me because I’m one guy, and maybe a handful of friends if they want accounts. Two, I wanted something I could use as a blog anyway, so I made a mod only community on my instance where I can blog. I don’t care if people read it or not, it just seemed fun.
Downside, finding communities is relatively more laborious. I have to go to other instances and look at their communities, or all feeds, to find things to subscribe to at home. Which means for each one, I need to copy the link or name, go to my instance’s search, then go to the communities tab and subscribe. On a big instance, someone probably already searched for a lot of communities at least once, which is enough to index it. But on your own, you gotta do it yourself and it can get a little tedious.
Overall, I’m liking running my own though, so I plan to keep doing that.
150 MB of RAM is a bit optimistic. However I agree that you should be okish with cheap 1GB 1vCPU VMs for a one user instance.
Maybe even host it on an old laptop you can use as a server.
Discoverability is one of the biggest weaknesses Lemmy has right now. It should be entirely fixable, though. A way to auto-index the list of communities on a given instance would be a great start.
Are you talking about getting a list for yourself, or doing it in a federated way? Because for an individual instance, you can go to Explore Communities -> All to view the most popular communities for that instance, or click the local tab for only communities that they host.
I found a lot of my communities (including this one!) through Lemmy Explorer which aggregates it a bit.
Doing it in a federated way.
Specifically, when you tell your instance about another one, it should at least register the existence of every community on the other instance. Right now indexing is community-by-community from what I hear and that sucks.
I can completely understand why that wouldn’t be, it would put a big strain on any server with a large community count.
I think the top 25-100 communities could be reasonable, though. This could also be accomplished with a bot either managed by an instance interested in pulling that data, or a user wanting to automate subscriptions a bit.
*I originally posted this with an example that I immediately realized was incorrect, so I corrected that.
