• Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
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    1 year ago

    It’s not that you don’t have individual bargaining power. It’s just that if you were unionised, you’d have much more.

    The extent to which you are arguing against overwhelming evidence cannot be understated. You are arguing against something less controversial than evolution.

    We know that unions promote economic equality and build worker power, helping workers to win increases in pay, better benefits, and safer working conditions.

    But that’s not all unions do. Unions also have powerful effects on workers’ lives outside of work.

    High unionization levels are associated with positive outcomes across multiple indicators of economic, personal, and democratic well-being

    Unions raise wages of unionized workers by roughly 20% and raise compensation, including both wages and benefits, by about 28%.

    Unionized workers are more likely to receive paid leave, have health insurance and pension plans.

    Unionized workers receive more generous health benefits than nonunionized workers.

    Unionized workers receive 26% more vacation time and 14% more total paid leave

    How unions help all workers

    Workers get significant economic benefits from labor unions

    Unionized workers earn 10.2% more than their non-union peers

    Supporting workers’ right to organize is a key way to help boost wages and support quality jobs.

    Unions provide major economic benefits for workers and families

    • Steeve@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      Like I said, hand wavy at best

      Edit: Lol this dude ran back and added sources to previous comments after I called him out on not providing sources. Before the edit he claimed collective bargaining can get 50% raises for everyone.

      • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
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        1 year ago

        How is it hand wavy?!

        Imagine you are an employer with 100 employees, presented with the following situations.

        1. One employee demands a pay raise of 50%, or he’ll leave.
        2. 80 employees, including the employee above, demand a pay raise of 50% or they’ll all leave.

        In which of these two situations are you more likely to be willing to grant that 50% raise?

        • Steeve@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          Right, and what percentage of unions are successfully negotiating 50% pay raises? Surface level nuance free thought experiments aren’t going to convince me here

          • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
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            1 year ago

            It was an analogy. The point is that a union gives you stronger negotiation power than you have alone. By not being in a union, you’re getting worse outcomes than you would have in a union. All of the statistics we have demonstrate that unionising results in a big increase in wages and benefits. You’re basically saying “no” because you think you know better than the science. This is just like anti-vax sentiment.

            • Steeve@lemmy.ca
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              1 year ago

              You’ve sent zero statistics and I’ve yet to see any statistics or even anecdotal evidence that pertains to my industry. All you’ve done is promise ridiculous benefits like 50% salary increases through unrealistic analogies. My experience is purely anecdotal, but frankly it’s better evidence than pipe dream analogies.

              But sure, go around calling people anti-vax because you don’t know how to put together a proper argument, I’m sure that’s how you get people to change their minds about unionization. Why would I continue this conversation at this point? If this is something you’re passionate about I’d rethink your strategy.

              • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
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                1 year ago

                The extent to which you are arguing against overwhelming evidence cannot be understated. You are arguing against something less controversial than evolution.

                We know that unions promote economic equality and build worker power, helping workers to win increases in pay, better benefits, and safer working conditions.

                But that’s not all unions do. Unions also have powerful effects on workers’ lives outside of work.

                High unionization levels are associated with positive outcomes across multiple indicators of economic, personal, and democratic well-being

                Unions raise wages of unionized workers by roughly 20% and raise compensation, including both wages and benefits, by about 28%.

                Unionized workers are more likely to receive paid leave, have health insurance and pension plans.

                Unionized workers receive more generous health benefits than nonunionized workers.

                Unionized workers receive 26% more vacation time and 14% more total paid leave

                How unions help all workers

                Workers get significant economic benefits from labor unions

                Unionized workers earn 10.2% more than their non-union peers

                Supporting workers’ right to organize is a key way to help boost wages and support quality jobs.

                Unions provide major economic benefits for workers and families

                • Steeve@lemmy.ca
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                  1 year ago

                  Why on earth do you think I’d continue this conversation at this point? You’ve called me an anti-vax flat earther, I don’t know why you decided to resort to insults before sources, but it’s clear you aren’t discussing this in good faith. No thanks.

                  • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
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                    1 year ago

                    Your position is completely indefensible, and you know it, but you continue to hold it because your ego is more important than reality.

                    Do you know of any other groups who prioritise the preservation of their ideology over reality?

                    If you had any actual arguments against me, you would use them. But since you don’t, you’re just acting oh so indignant and high-handed that I had the temerity to call you out on your bullshit.

                    Maybe next time, if you don’t want an education, you should keep your ignorance to yourself.