destiny agrees

Can’t argue with that flawless logic.

Everything they said is complete projection. Full stop. The idea that the US state isn’t corrupt because there exists separate departments is utterly ridiculous. The US state feeds off corruption, it’s the primary motivator of policy, corruption is literally completely legal in the US. Also, does this person think there aren’t separate departments of state in china? Even a wiki page will tell you otherwise.

The US is a police state. Much more so than china. You don’t hold a quarter of the worlds prison population despite being a tiny percent of the global population without being one. US police are amongst the heaviest armed in the world, the NYPD alone is better equiped in military gear than most militaries in the world. Police operate with near full impunity in this country because of corrupt local governments and police unions. Police brutality resulting in the death on innocents is almost a weekly occurance. I don’t ever want to here libs say china is a police state when they live in and vouch for the biggest police state on the planet. Infuriating argument.

Add to this, the complete dismissal of any wrongdoing by the US towards political dissent as “conspiracy nonsense” is incredibly rich considering they believe there is currently happening a mass genocide of Uighurs of which the only “evidence” we have of happening is blurry satellite images and massive leaps in assumptions made from china putting more security in the region. Even on wikipedia, any western media really, they admit the US has participated in many cases of jailing, suppressing and murdering political dissenters. It’s not something that’s under wraps that we need to theorize on, it’s in the open and they openly admit to it. As socialists we can admit that socialist states have done bad things to dissenters that weren’t necessary at all, but when you point out that the US has done the same libs immediately jump into denial and call you crazy, it’s infuriating.

The internet thing is silly. It’s very obvious that sites like reddit, Facebook, Twitter, etc are completely dominated by Americans and American rhetoric. Ridiculous to claim that china not allowing those sites is somehow authoritarian, especially when the US doesn’t allow certain Chinese sites and has literally banned Chinese tech companies from selling or operating in the country.

Overall it’s just impossible to argue with these types. They operate on the false premises that everything china says or anything coming out of china must be wrong and bad, no exceptions, and anything coming out of western press are the only resources you should care about. It’s china bad syndrome. The mere idea of china sparks a fear inside them that initiates a sort of fight or flight response where they either deny or deflect any information contrary to the narrative they believe in.

Bro they genocide the Muslims. Police state is it not? The way they enforce stuff. Mainstream media also has a problem with it so it almost certainly is bad in some regard. Plus destiny agrees and some politicians I like.

I’m impressed you remained so calm.

Discussions like this are extremely frustrating. Atrocity propaganda can be created with virtually no effort, and it proliferates easily once set in to motion. Countering it with facts requires you to have seemingly encyclopedic knowledge of history and politics on hand at all times.

A (slightly edited) quote on war-time lies: “Man’s habit of lying is not nearly so extraordinary as his amazing readiness to believe. It is, indeed, because of human credulity that lies flourish.”

Anyway, here’s a quote from a guy who worked for the CIA for 25 years. I hope it can help you if you get into another conversation like this.

I want to reveal to those who still believe in the myths of the CIA what it is and what it actually does. My explanation will not include the usual pap fed to us by Agency spokesmen. My view backed by 25 years of experience is, quite simply, that the CIA is the covert action arm of the Presidency. […] The CIA is not an intelligence agency. In fact, it acts largely as an anti-intelligence agency, producing only that information wanted by policymakers to support their plans and suppressing information that does not support those plans. As the covert action arm of the President, the CIA uses disinformation, much of it aimed at the U.S. public, to mold opinion. It employs the gamut of disinformation techniques from forging documents to planting and discovering "communist” weapons caches. But the major weapon in its arsenal of disinformation is the “intelligence” it feeds to policymakers. Instead of gathering genuine intelligence that could serve as the basis for reasonable policies, the CIA often ends up distorting reality, creating out of whole cloth “intelligence” to justify policies that have already been decided upon. Policymakers then leak this “intelligence” to the media to deceive us all and gain our support. (Ralph W. McGehee, “Deadly Deceits: My 25 Years in the CIA”, p. 15)

Aa shorter quote of his with the same essence: “The CIA is not now nor has it ever been a central intelligence agency. […] Disinformation is a large part of its covert action responsibility, and the American people are the primary target audience of its lies.” (Deadly Deceits, p. 192).

You may also find this useful: Former CIA Agent John Stockwell Talks about How the CIA Worked in Vietnam and Elsewhere - he talks about how the CIA gives false stories to reporters, some reporters know this and purposely publish false stories planted by the CIA and some don’t know that they are planting CIA stories.

In my war, the Angola war, that I helped to manage, 1/3 of my staff was propaganda. […] I had propagandists all over the world, principally in London, Kinshasa, and Zambia. We would take stories which we would write and put them in the Zambia Times, and then pulled them out and sent them to journalists on our payroll in Europe. But his cover story, you see, would be what he would’ve gotten from his stringer in Lusaka, who had gotten them from the Zambia Times. We had the complicity of the government of Zambia, Kenneth Kaunda if you will, to put these false stories into his newspapers. But after that point, the journalists, Reuters and AFP, the management was not witting of it. Now, our contact man in Europe was. And we pumped just dozens of stories about Cuban atrocities […] We didn’t know of one single atrocity committed by the Cubans, it was pure raw false propaganda to to create a an illusion of communists, you know, eating babies for breakfast and so forth, totally false propaganda.

More from him:

Another thing [the CIA does] is to disseminate propaganda to influence people’s minds, and this is a major function of the CIA. And unfortunately, of course, it overlaps into the gathering of information. You have contact with a journalist, you will give him true stories, you’ll get information from him, you’ll also give him false stories. […] You buy his confidence and set him up. We’ve seen this happen recently with Jack Anderson, for example, who has his intelligence sources, and he has also admitted that he’s been set up by them, every fifth story just simply being false. You also work on their human vulnerabilities to recruit them, in a classic sense, to make them your agent, so that you can control what they do so you don’t have to set them up. Sort of, you know, by putting one over on them so you can say, “Here, plant this one next Tuesday.” […] The Church Committee brought it out in 1975, and then Woodward and Bernstein put an article in Rolling Stone a couple of years later. Four hundred journalists cooperating with the CIA, including some of the biggest names in the business, to consciously introduce the stories into the press.

Good luck talking with people in the future about things like this. Often, there is not much hope in a conversation like this with a person who is not poised to listen. But on the off chance you have some favorable conversation conditions sometime, I hope these quotes can help.

We have real humans in the US…

just flat out racism

I wouldn’t engage with them without sourcing your claims, and if they source claims, breakdown their bias. Esp if it’s RFA or NED/wiki related. I would also not debate these kinds of people when they’re clearly so brainwashed and willfully ignorant. A debate then is about who is more “convincing” more than who is correct. It becomes a mind game more than a conversation. Don’t fall for their dumb mind games. Don’t participate.

The worst part about being a leftist is that we always have to do 10x more homework than any lib. So, you can’t sound unsure or humble about what you know. It’s provable that the genocide is a fabrication. No doubt about it. And America imprisons millions of black people. It doesn’t have to hide it because the status quo doesn’t give a f-ck about black people. It also has concentration camps on the border. No need to hide it. As long as we can criminalize a minority population, liberals will concede to their oppression. America also has glorified concentration camps with casinos called reservations. No one gives a shit. Regardless of what China says or does, the facts are in their favor, and american liberals have zero authority with which to talk about genocide when they actively consent and participate in it.

No offense but that lib “friend” or whatever is a complete loser and a hollow person if they are so sinophobic.

“Only evil Chinese are capable of hiding genocide. We’re too good and much better than the y*llows. Our institutions our superior.”

Is pretty much what that person was saying. And it’s a pretty horrible thing to say.

For some reason I read this in a roadman slang accent.

Anyway, if one side of the argument is coming with actual sources and said sources get countered with ‘you’ve been brainwashed’, I usually know what time it is.

You’re not stupid comrade. It’s just standard lib talk, again.

I’ve had a couple conversations like this before. You just can’t get any ground because they call all sources that disagree with them propoganda. They won’t change their mind because they’ve already made it up. I think if you really want to change a lib you have to take a more subtle approach. Usually “debates” just devolve into nonsense emotional bs. I think the lib is just being incredibly condescending because I’ve seen the same trend in so many other people. They think they’ve figured everything out while not having any critical thinking skills. They need to learn how to reflect on themselves.

Lib: What assumptions do you refer to? Officials get away with incredibly terrible programs like MKULTRA which mind you, are INDIVIDUAL DEPARTMENTS, they have nothing to do with other departments.

Same argument as defending cops with “bad apples”.

You were so polite. Lib was definitely being condescending and rude. For whatever reason they can never resist the urge to be smug about their own ignorance. They’re real quick to accuse others of being brainwashed. It’s ironic but it’s not funny lol.

just goes to show that liberals only care about china when capitalist media is trying to smear it.

Liberals gonna liberal. What can ya do except grief their base in minecraft. I stopped caring with these types, but I’m 100% gonna be there to say “I told you so” when the time comes.

Does anybody have the paper/article about how something like 80% of the Uyghurs detained have been released? I know I saw it linked recently but can’t seem to find it. It was an official document of sorts from some western country as well, which makes it quite useful to discredit most liberals.

Sorry a little off topic.