I’ve always thought it cruel to have children as they’re incapable of consenting to sapient existence. Add in living in America on a dying planet, and now you’re just being deliberately cruel by having kids on purpose.
The fascists have no qualms with having kids and raising them to be little fascists, too. I had kids because I wanted to love and care for people as I help them develop into capable and caring people, but I’m also glad that at least 2 of the members of the generation who will be running this planet when I’m old won’t have been raised by fascists.
I think this whole line of reasoning that it’s immoral or cruel to have children at all is just plain dumb and utterly nonsensical. Yes, there’s a lot of fucked up shit in the world. But, other than climate change, this is far from the worst the world has ever been. Brining people into the world now is not particularly worse for them than, say, having kids in Medieval Europe where there was a decent chance they’d die as an infant or get the plague, but the best case you could hope for was to give them the life of a subsistence dirt farmer. Or ancient Mesopotamia, where, again, odds are they’d die in childhood, but they couldn’t expect better than barely surviving on the edge of starvation. Etc, etc, etc.
Yet through all that people managed to find ways to improve their conditions and that of those around them. People fought and built better lives and a better world. Fuck anyone who tells me I should just give up and just resign that the world now and forever belongs to the fascists and capitalists.
Having kids is not cruel. Despite the darkness, there’s still a hell of a lot of happiness to be had in this world. I look at the expressions of pure joy on my kids’ faces as they explore the forest near our house, or when I get home from work, or when they make cookies for their mom, etc. And you’re telling me giving them that joy is cruel? How detached from reality do you have to be to believe that?
Unless there is some higher plane of existence experiencing life is inconsequential. Suffering and joy alike. Nothingness does not appreciate anything.
So I have to evaluate here on earth if the value of some joy outweighs the suffering experienced. The only case I can say that it matters, for myself, is when my own joy brought others joy. That was the only thing that was worth it.
when my own joy brought others joy. That was the only thing that was worth it.
If that’s something you truly value, then you should absolutely have kids. There is no joy greater than that which a child feels, especially one with a loving family.
I also don’t think experiencing life is inconsequential. Sure, it doesn’t have some grand cosmic consequence. Our existence has virtually 0 impact on nearly all of reality. But that’s not the only way to define something as consequential. What’s important to me is my life and the lives of those I care about (which extends far beyond just the people I know personally). My kids’ existence has been enormously consequential for many people who I care about, and my life has been enormously consequential on that of my kids.
I don’t need some grand cosmic meaning behind that. The meaning of life is whatever you choose to make of it. For me, that’s providing as much enjoyment and fulfillment to my family as I can.
I’ve always thought it cruel to have children as they’re incapable of consenting to sapient existence. Add in living in America on a dying planet, and now you’re just being deliberately cruel by having kids on purpose.
The fascists have no qualms with having kids and raising them to be little fascists, too. I had kids because I wanted to love and care for people as I help them develop into capable and caring people, but I’m also glad that at least 2 of the members of the generation who will be running this planet when I’m old won’t have been raised by fascists.
I think this whole line of reasoning that it’s immoral or cruel to have children at all is just plain dumb and utterly nonsensical. Yes, there’s a lot of fucked up shit in the world. But, other than climate change, this is far from the worst the world has ever been. Brining people into the world now is not particularly worse for them than, say, having kids in Medieval Europe where there was a decent chance they’d die as an infant or get the plague, but the best case you could hope for was to give them the life of a subsistence dirt farmer. Or ancient Mesopotamia, where, again, odds are they’d die in childhood, but they couldn’t expect better than barely surviving on the edge of starvation. Etc, etc, etc.
Yet through all that people managed to find ways to improve their conditions and that of those around them. People fought and built better lives and a better world. Fuck anyone who tells me I should just give up and just resign that the world now and forever belongs to the fascists and capitalists.
Having kids is not cruel. Despite the darkness, there’s still a hell of a lot of happiness to be had in this world. I look at the expressions of pure joy on my kids’ faces as they explore the forest near our house, or when I get home from work, or when they make cookies for their mom, etc. And you’re telling me giving them that joy is cruel? How detached from reality do you have to be to believe that?
Unless there is some higher plane of existence experiencing life is inconsequential. Suffering and joy alike. Nothingness does not appreciate anything.
So I have to evaluate here on earth if the value of some joy outweighs the suffering experienced. The only case I can say that it matters, for myself, is when my own joy brought others joy. That was the only thing that was worth it.
If that’s something you truly value, then you should absolutely have kids. There is no joy greater than that which a child feels, especially one with a loving family.
I also don’t think experiencing life is inconsequential. Sure, it doesn’t have some grand cosmic consequence. Our existence has virtually 0 impact on nearly all of reality. But that’s not the only way to define something as consequential. What’s important to me is my life and the lives of those I care about (which extends far beyond just the people I know personally). My kids’ existence has been enormously consequential for many people who I care about, and my life has been enormously consequential on that of my kids.
I don’t need some grand cosmic meaning behind that. The meaning of life is whatever you choose to make of it. For me, that’s providing as much enjoyment and fulfillment to my family as I can.
Are you capable of guaranteeing these children will never suffer in their lives?
Of course not. Everyone suffers in their life at some point. That’s called being alive.
I think that’s also an absurd hurdle to insist someone has to clear.
Truly the stupidest thing I’ve seen on Lemmy today, and that’s a fucking high bar to leap.