Luigi Mangione, who is charged with first-degree murder in the ambush killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, made the comments on a website set up by his defense.
No one is celebrating murder. First of all Luigi is innocent, because the cops are incompetent and just grabbed the first patsy available. Secondly because no murder happened. What happened was the inevitable. When it becomes clear that there are no consequences for bad behavior of the ruling / owning class, we start chopping off heads and shooting people. Unions were the compromise, and they have murdered that compromise. It is time to bring back the fear that the rich felt during The Gilded Age.
You can try to reframe it as much as you want so that you don’t see grey, but the rest of us are celebrating a true American Folk Hero.
I’m going to ask again, Are you Dora the Explorer on an acid trip? You are completely incapable of not licking Boots. I don’t think that poor monkey needs much more of a tongue bath.
If you’re being attacked with the possibility of dying then defending yourself with equal force isn’t murder, it’s self-defense. If the attack is systemic and the system is objectively failing and beyond repair through its own institutions, then what would be a murder in different context becomes an action of self-defense.
The person killed was, without a doubt, a perpetrator of the system that caused phenomenal amounts of suffering and death. A system that couldn’t get fixed in decades. So what you call “excusing murder” others will call celebrating a hero.
For the same reason this community celebrates any news about big corpos and rich people getting screwed over. Because it’s a piece of fairness in a broken system. There is no hypocrisy if you allow to look through others people’s perspective; given this is a hard thing to do if you just got tons of very critical, if not offensively-critical replies, I see that.
That’s a more civil effort than your previous one. If you read the comments I’ve received, I think you’ll find that many of them were offensive. Lucky then that I don’t subscribe to harm-trauma-safety culture. Too bad for me if I get insulted! But a thoughtless comment is never going to inspire a thoughtful reply. And many of these comments are clearly just from people angry and surprised to have their views questioned.
I do understand the argument you are collectively making. I find it to be unconvincing sophistry. The murder victim was a “perpetrator” of a harmful system just as you and I are perpetrators of harmful systems. We live in a complex society full of harmful systems. But we don’t necessary all agree on what constitutes “harmful”, that’s why we have laws. And this guy broke none of them. If people find that to be a problem, then they need to get the law changed so that the penalty for being CEO of a health insurer is mandatory capital punishment with no appeals allowed. That way, everyone will know in advance where they stand, including him. To the extent that this is not the law, that’s on us collectively, not on him.
For instance, I personally consider that people who eat factory-farmed meat are responsible for perpetrating a system of terrible cruelty. Those people probably include you. Do I therefore have the right to gun you down in the street? Of course not. You broke no law and I don’t get to invent my own on the hoof. (I wouldn’t do it anyway because I believe murder is wrong is all circumstances bar none.)
It seems to me that nobody here is thinking very deeply about this question. Pure ethics aside, the future world you are all promoting is one of bloody chaos. It will certainly not be a democracy.
If people find that to be a problem, then they need to get the law changed
My brother in Christ, the system meant to hold up and enable the people to shape those laws does. not. work. That’s the whole god damn point.
You might also want to look at how harmful systems usually get into power (peaceful), and how people are usually able to get rid of them if the perpetrators of said harmful system aren’t willing to give away power. Historically this was not achieved through talking nicely or resorting to the very rules of said harmful system.
Given a working democratic system that ensures people’s well-being, mass meat production can be changed peacefully through civil discussions and political participation. However this whole thing with Luigi is about the existence of said well-being and system itself. People are suffering and democracy failed them. What’s left is everyone’s own ethical compass and unspoken societal moral rules. That’s what you’re arguing with, and why Luigi is seen by many as Folk hero. And why people will get increasingly pissed about you and call you a bootlicker, as you argue as if there’s still a democracy even though for many there’s only a boot stomping on all of us.
Arguing with democratic processes if there’s no democracy to speak of anymore (or a majority of people stopped believing in it - even worse!) won’t get you anywhere.
I do get it. I’ve read this argument formulated in many different ways, I’m completely familiar with it. Roughly: the system’s broken, there’s nothing left to be done except burn it all down. I don’t agree. That’s all.
Here’s what I feel (brace yourself). Someone who makes such an argument in 2025 America is like a spoiled child who doesn’t understand how lucky they are. If we were talking about “the system” in Stalinist Russia, or today’s Venezuela, or Georgia, or China, I might have some sympathy. But you’re in America. Your country is still a democracy, just about, with courts and a ton of functioning representative institutions. You didn’t build all but your ancestors did and they sweated blood to get there. Your politicians are scared of you, not the other way round like in many less fortunate countries. You have a ton of options to change things without resorting to literal murder. It just won’t be easy and it won’t happen overnight, because you’ll have to deal with people who disagree with you, who don’t share your values. That’s the point of democracy. But you don’t want to have to do all that boring sh** cos it takes time and effort and other people’s priorities are irrelevant and you want results now. That’s what I feel about your argument.
What I think about it is that you should put all your obvious energy to better uses than promoting murder online. Because, believe it or not, I do actually want the same thing as everyone else here.
I’m german, but anyway. You’re entitled to your opinion, even though it’s pretty much evident it’s nonsense in regards to the current situation in the US. I do hope to be completely wrong about this one in the long run, however right now anyone who isn’t a christian white heterosexual cis male has to resist or even outright fear for their life.
So yeah, I think you can be pretty happy people will just be angry at you online with your opinion given many are forced into fighting and resistance against the system you’re more or less representing in the context of this discussion. Better toughen up.
Seems I only score 3/5 on the intersectional privilege quota. Time to change my innermost convictions! I think you’re over-dramatizing the situation - more German sang-froid needed. Murder is wrong and America’s inability to get itself universal healthcare is not going to be fixed by introducing violence into politics.
The anger and insults and hypocrisy here are quite something.
Let’s get back to basics. There are lots of people here excusing murder. I am saying that is a bad thing. That is all.
No one is celebrating murder. First of all Luigi is innocent, because the cops are incompetent and just grabbed the first patsy available. Secondly because no murder happened. What happened was the inevitable. When it becomes clear that there are no consequences for bad behavior of the ruling / owning class, we start chopping off heads and shooting people. Unions were the compromise, and they have murdered that compromise. It is time to bring back the fear that the rich felt during The Gilded Age.
You can try to reframe it as much as you want so that you don’t see grey, but the rest of us are celebrating a true American Folk Hero.
I’m going to ask again, Are you Dora the Explorer on an acid trip? You are completely incapable of not licking Boots. I don’t think that poor monkey needs much more of a tongue bath.
If you’re being attacked with the possibility of dying then defending yourself with equal force isn’t murder, it’s self-defense. If the attack is systemic and the system is objectively failing and beyond repair through its own institutions, then what would be a murder in different context becomes an action of self-defense.
The person killed was, without a doubt, a perpetrator of the system that caused phenomenal amounts of suffering and death. A system that couldn’t get fixed in decades. So what you call “excusing murder” others will call celebrating a hero.
For the same reason this community celebrates any news about big corpos and rich people getting screwed over. Because it’s a piece of fairness in a broken system. There is no hypocrisy if you allow to look through others people’s perspective; given this is a hard thing to do if you just got tons of very critical, if not offensively-critical replies, I see that.
That’s a more civil effort than your previous one. If you read the comments I’ve received, I think you’ll find that many of them were offensive. Lucky then that I don’t subscribe to harm-trauma-safety culture. Too bad for me if I get insulted! But a thoughtless comment is never going to inspire a thoughtful reply. And many of these comments are clearly just from people angry and surprised to have their views questioned.
I do understand the argument you are collectively making. I find it to be unconvincing sophistry. The murder victim was a “perpetrator” of a harmful system just as you and I are perpetrators of harmful systems. We live in a complex society full of harmful systems. But we don’t necessary all agree on what constitutes “harmful”, that’s why we have laws. And this guy broke none of them. If people find that to be a problem, then they need to get the law changed so that the penalty for being CEO of a health insurer is mandatory capital punishment with no appeals allowed. That way, everyone will know in advance where they stand, including him. To the extent that this is not the law, that’s on us collectively, not on him.
For instance, I personally consider that people who eat factory-farmed meat are responsible for perpetrating a system of terrible cruelty. Those people probably include you. Do I therefore have the right to gun you down in the street? Of course not. You broke no law and I don’t get to invent my own on the hoof. (I wouldn’t do it anyway because I believe murder is wrong is all circumstances bar none.)
It seems to me that nobody here is thinking very deeply about this question. Pure ethics aside, the future world you are all promoting is one of bloody chaos. It will certainly not be a democracy.
My brother in Christ, the system meant to hold up and enable the people to shape those laws does. not. work. That’s the whole god damn point. You might also want to look at how harmful systems usually get into power (peaceful), and how people are usually able to get rid of them if the perpetrators of said harmful system aren’t willing to give away power. Historically this was not achieved through talking nicely or resorting to the very rules of said harmful system. Given a working democratic system that ensures people’s well-being, mass meat production can be changed peacefully through civil discussions and political participation. However this whole thing with Luigi is about the existence of said well-being and system itself. People are suffering and democracy failed them. What’s left is everyone’s own ethical compass and unspoken societal moral rules. That’s what you’re arguing with, and why Luigi is seen by many as Folk hero. And why people will get increasingly pissed about you and call you a bootlicker, as you argue as if there’s still a democracy even though for many there’s only a boot stomping on all of us.
Arguing with democratic processes if there’s no democracy to speak of anymore (or a majority of people stopped believing in it - even worse!) won’t get you anywhere.
I do get it. I’ve read this argument formulated in many different ways, I’m completely familiar with it. Roughly: the system’s broken, there’s nothing left to be done except burn it all down. I don’t agree. That’s all.
Here’s what I feel (brace yourself). Someone who makes such an argument in 2025 America is like a spoiled child who doesn’t understand how lucky they are. If we were talking about “the system” in Stalinist Russia, or today’s Venezuela, or Georgia, or China, I might have some sympathy. But you’re in America. Your country is still a democracy, just about, with courts and a ton of functioning representative institutions. You didn’t build all but your ancestors did and they sweated blood to get there. Your politicians are scared of you, not the other way round like in many less fortunate countries. You have a ton of options to change things without resorting to literal murder. It just won’t be easy and it won’t happen overnight, because you’ll have to deal with people who disagree with you, who don’t share your values. That’s the point of democracy. But you don’t want to have to do all that boring sh** cos it takes time and effort and other people’s priorities are irrelevant and you want results now. That’s what I feel about your argument.
What I think about it is that you should put all your obvious energy to better uses than promoting murder online. Because, believe it or not, I do actually want the same thing as everyone else here.
I’m german, but anyway. You’re entitled to your opinion, even though it’s pretty much evident it’s nonsense in regards to the current situation in the US. I do hope to be completely wrong about this one in the long run, however right now anyone who isn’t a christian white heterosexual cis male has to resist or even outright fear for their life.
So yeah, I think you can be pretty happy people will just be angry at you online with your opinion given many are forced into fighting and resistance against the system you’re more or less representing in the context of this discussion. Better toughen up.
Seems I only score 3/5 on the intersectional privilege quota. Time to change my innermost convictions! I think you’re over-dramatizing the situation - more German sang-froid needed. Murder is wrong and America’s inability to get itself universal healthcare is not going to be fixed by introducing violence into politics.
Okay, I’m fed up with you. If you’re this naive just go to hell.
It’s funny the way text communication can drive people crazy like this.