An internet devoid of unacceptable “deviations” from gender and sexuality too. Given the effort to erase trans and gay people from public spaces, this seems like a parallel effort to destroy their digital ones too.
Not just any rant, a blatantly discriminatory one!
You DO see the contradiction where you claim to not care about somebody’s sexuality, yet get offended when you hear about it, right? And what’s worse, you don’t just get offended, but you turn around and directly insult those people by insisting they have a mental illness!
What you’re really saying is that you’re so offended by someone else’s harmless actions that you wish they would disappear.
Eh, I think you’re missing their point. This is one of those “Why do you get to claim you’re special, but nobody is telling me I’M special?” kind of comments. They’re saying they just want people to suck as much as anyone else and it all be equal. It’s a stupid argument, but definitely different than your interpretation and response.
Not really harmless tho, i’ve seen countless places turn into a trans circlejerk.
As for the “caring” part, i don’t care whatever you are, just don’t mention it. I don’t need to hear “im trans” every second, or it being mentioned in every message, or your name, your blog etc etc
Eh, in general i agree with you, but i think in this case it could be considered as “ironic”.
Like someone complains “I’m tired of hearing about trans in public spaces, pls keep it for yourself, we dont care”, and someone replies “Im’ tired of hearing complaints about trans in public spaces, pls keep it for yourself, we dont care”.
I think we all agree that the argument is not really good in any case, but as the second one was a reply, maybe we can see it as an application of first comment’s logic to itself.
It was probably unproductive of me to try to talk about it further with them, and I really wanted to sign off with “btw I’m nonbinary” on every reply I made
Not really harmless tho, i’ve seen countless places turn into a trans circlejerk.
What exactly would that even be? “hnghh, we respect other people’s choices and individuality, hngggh” How awful. All we want is to have the same respect and autonomy granted to straight and/or cis people to be granted to us.
As for the “caring” part, I don’t care whatever you are, just don’t mention it.
And that’s harmful because unless you truly are consistent and also don’t want men to mention their girlfriends or wives and for women to never mention their boyfriends or husbands around you, you’re treating people differently based on their gender or sexuality, allowing someone to talk about their home life, what they may have done over the weekend with their partner, but only if it ain’t gay or trans.
Literally the entire point of pronouns is defeated if people don’t know what pronouns a person uses (and this applies to more than just trans people too), so there is some use for people that put them in their name.
Beyond that though, even if there’s no need to say or publicly display something, that doesn’t mean one shouldn’t say it, and it definitely doesn’t mean one should be forbidden from saying it. There’s no need for people to tell me about their hobbies, or wear t-shirts or put up bumper stickers with messages on them, or put up religious symbols everywhere. Perhaps I’m tired of seeing messaging for political candidates I don’t like, and wish they’d keep their preferences to themselves, or perhaps I don’t care if people are married, they could just keep it between themselves rather than wear some rings to tell the world about it. But you know what? If I were to support making it illegal to say and show and wear an express such things, especially on the internet where the stakes are even lower, I’d be closer to the leader of something like the Taliban or North Korea, than to a good citizen of a democracy.
Even if you think saying/displaying/supporting something is “attention seeking”, well, people have a right to do that. To try to restrict that would be to restrict the right to free speech itself, because you cannot communicate with someone without first getting their attention.
I really don’t think you are, because most people don’t realize how broad things will get. While right now, the targets are trans and gay people, people who write and pass these sorts of laws don’t want to stop there. When I said “deviations”, I wasn’t just speaking about ‘us queers’, but also about men with long hair, women with flat chests, literally anyone who doesn’t mould themselves into the right wing’s view of “Man” and “Woman”. I don’t think you want the colour of your shirts policed, or for cops to come in and throw a woman out of the restroom because she wasn’t “feminine” enough to someone.
I really don’t give 2 shits if you’re trans or gay or whatever. Just keep it in front of you. No need to put your pronouns in your name, or put a trans flag everywhere.
If you don’t care, then why does it bother you so much to see them merely existing in public or online?
I’d like to suggest that you ignore pronouns or pride flags since they clearly don’t appeal to you, but like many things in life, what doesn’t matter to you might matter to one of the other 7 billion or so human beings on the planet with you, and putting the pronouns in the bio or displaying a pride flag actively communicates safety and creates a welcoming atmosphere, while also helping us find like-minded people and make friendships.
Hopefully nothing stopping you, and it can avoid some awkward situations. My company forbids us from including them in our email signature block, and there’s been some confusion due to people assuming I’m a woman and using she/her pronouns to refer to me. Even as a cis white guy, I wish my company let us add preferred pronouns to avoid dumb little situations like that.
I’m sorry to put you on a spotlight, but your situation is precisely what I was thinking about when I made my comment. Not queer or some woke SJW warrior. You’re just a person trying to live his life, and I have to imagine that a State Law banning you from putting them in anything official or public would be similarly frustrating.
But the thing is, you’re just collateral damage at best to the GOP, and speaking from experience, at worst the target of ire simply for creating such confusion in other people for merely having an ambiguous name, I assume.
Sounds like you need to find a new employer. That is a toxic and discriminatory policy that exists exclusively for one reason: because the executives are raging bigots.
You seem like a pretty solid poster except for this one pretty bad take. Don’t let dramatic internet discourse and a few attention grabbing media personalities or allies shape your viewpoint for an entire group.
I know you probably already know this but I don’t want good posters leaving Lemmy because of silly disagreements or pet peeves. There are annoying people pushing toxic discourse on any issue. Generally people will live and let live if you don’t personally attack them. Someone specifying their pronouns isn’t attention seeking behavior (usually) it’s just a courtesy. Your comment is just begging for the kind of responses that will require you to give people the kind of attention you claim to hate giving them.
Nah if people with crappy beliefs are posting content everywhere, that’s just more avenues for those bad beliefs to seep out. I’d rather Lemmy loses contributors with those types of bad takes instead of groveling for content like there isn’t enough already.
I agree, but I don’t think that’s this person. I also poked around their post and comments and I didn’t get the feeling they were some rabid Proud Boy or whatever, and I would rather try to engage with people like Hurglet before the actual right-wing does.
I agree to some extent and think that defederation of instances that promote harmful viewpoints such as explodingheads and their users. For others I’d rather promote good behavior rather than engaging with them with a hostile attitude and let attitudes change organically. OP doesn’t exactly fit the bill of a proud boy but has one bad take. If someone wants to block him I understand but I’d rather change his mind
I get downvoted a lot too. But after reading this, I think the downvote buttons might actually mean you’re right, because there are a lot of retards on lemmy who drool their way through life and have no idea what they’re talking about.
Because you’re right. I can tell by the downvotes. The more you get, the fighter you are
Wtf is this argument ?
Are you at the same time validating “Ugh trans people are attention seeker, they think they deserve it because people hate on them” and “Hey look at us, we are the heroes of this story because people on internet disagree with us” ?
I know i already replied to your other comments, but it’s funny it’s the same in both case : you just do what you criticize other people for supposedly doing
Strange, it’s displaying as if I replied to a different comment than I intended to.
But really, I’m just mocking people who downvote others because they don’t agree with their comment. I think it’s really lame.
I’d like a place to talk to people, about contentious issues. I personally never use the downvote button and only occasionally even use the upvote button.
When I see a perfectly reasonable comment with -50 downvotes within minutes of posting … it makes me laugh at everyone who just can’t hit that downvote button fast enough.
When I see a perfectly reasonable comment with -50 downvotes within minutes of posting … it makes me laugh at everyone who just can’t hit that downvote button fast enough.
I think it’s safe to assume that those 50 people who downvoted that comment thought it actually wasn’t perfectly reasonable
I mean, you mocked them using the exact reasoning you criticize them for, like “making a show of being hated -> attention seeker”. But ok, let’s forget about that.
You may consider that you are actually mocking communities that are the target of true violence, not just downvotes. Like they get hurt, killed, harassed, even by administrations and systems ? Maybe that’s the reason for your downvotes.
And did you realized that this is really the main use of downvotes ? Just a quick way to react. If you agree/like, upvote. If you do not agree/dislike, downvote. It’s very simple really. Either you don’t get that, either you are mocking people for using tools the way they were intended to. Both ways seem dumb to me.
If you want a place that do not allows this quick reactions that are up/downvotes, well maybe switch for other platforms that are not designed around it ?
I don’t subscribe to the idea that tweets or message boards or ideas or ‘silence’ is violence.
The upvote system was invented to put relevant discussion to the top, and hide irrelevant discussion. What people have done with it is use it as a like/dislike button.
If that’s what it was, that’s what it would be called. Like Facebook, which has an actual ‘like’ button
But I do think people who even interact with the system are losers. That’s my personal, anecdotal, opinion of them
Yeah, i kinda agree with you, social media violence is “not” violence, or at least a lesser violence. This was my point : trans are the target of true violence, while being tired of hearing about them is not being target of true violence. This asymmetry may be the cause of that much people disagreeing with you.
On the up/downvote origin, you are right, i did not knew it. Everytime i have seen it used, and so everytime i used it, it was as a like/dislike option. You genuinely are the first person i see complaining about it, so i considered you wrong on this, my bad. But the idea still remains in a different way : though you are technically right, maybe you still can consider that using up/down as like/dislike is a common thing to do.
On the Facebook point, i do not know. It is rather a “like” system than a “like/dislike” : there isn’t really a way to disagree with a statement (the “angry” emoji being the closest, but it just conveys that you are angry, not if you agree with the com or not).
Well, let’s take it as a personal opinion then. Now here’s mine : people seeking attention by complaining about supposedly attention seekers are double losers, first because of my judgment, and second because of their own judgment.
I dunno, man. It’s a weird perspective to have when you’re me. I don’t hate trans people, I don’t hate gay people, I don’t hate minorities, I want everyone to be happy and healthy and free.
I just don’t agree with the lefts way of getting there and I don’t agree that their ‘goodness’ actually is coming from a place of good. I think people get wrapped up on the promises, I think trans rights are just the same as everyone else’s rights.
I don’t think trans people experience any more actual violence than any of us do. I’m just as likely to get beat up walking down the street as anyone else is.
I think the media and left wing educators are distracting us from the issues we should be up in arms about and feeding the masses a story to enact.
And I think lemmy is a huge symptom of that. This is not a diverse place. And any diversity of thought is struck down with the strength of a thousand suns.
I don’t think anyone deserves anymore rights than anyone else, and if you’re specifically talking about trans, if you wouldn’t give a 10yo girl breast augmentation surgery because she wanted bigger boobs, or a child penis injections because he wanted a bigger dick, why would you invert a 10yo penis to create a neo-vagina?
That’s not about ‘rights’. Those rights aren’t afford to only trans kids and then you tell an 8yo “no, I’m sorry you can’t get a tattoo on your face”. It’s disingenuous. How do you k ow how badly they want a face tattoo? Why would you deny them their sense of self in that way? Is that not hatecthen?
My slap down trans argument will always be this: if you’re an adult, do whatever the fuck you want. Put horns in your head, split your tongue, get tattoos, get bigger breasts, inject synthol into your arms, invert your penis. I don’t care.
But if a child has a perfectly healthy and functioning body, the problem they are having is not with their body, don’t do cosmetic surgery on them.
I get it, a bunch of quack doctors want to do as many of these surgeries as they can. These idiots would be lining up lobotomy patients too, if they still could.
Because they are quack doctors. They are idiots, they are scamming your kids by selling surgery to kids parents to treat a problem that isn’t physical.
An internet devoid of unacceptable “deviations” from gender and sexuality too. Given the effort to erase trans and gay people from public spaces, this seems like a parallel effort to destroy their digital ones too.
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Not just any rant, a blatantly discriminatory one!
You DO see the contradiction where you claim to not care about somebody’s sexuality, yet get offended when you hear about it, right? And what’s worse, you don’t just get offended, but you turn around and directly insult those people by insisting they have a mental illness!
What you’re really saying is that you’re so offended by someone else’s harmless actions that you wish they would disappear.
Eh, I think you’re missing their point. This is one of those “Why do you get to claim you’re special, but nobody is telling me I’M special?” kind of comments. They’re saying they just want people to suck as much as anyone else and it all be equal. It’s a stupid argument, but definitely different than your interpretation and response.
Not really harmless tho, i’ve seen countless places turn into a trans circlejerk.
As for the “caring” part, i don’t care whatever you are, just don’t mention it. I don’t need to hear “im trans” every second, or it being mentioned in every message, or your name, your blog etc etc
Please elaborate, how exactly are you harmed by a trans circlejerk?
Someone tugged too hard 😥
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I want to hear it.
And it’s a discussion community, there’s a topic and people respond. If you don’t like it just move on. No reason to tell anyone to shut up.
Eh, in general i agree with you, but i think in this case it could be considered as “ironic”. Like someone complains “I’m tired of hearing about trans in public spaces, pls keep it for yourself, we dont care”, and someone replies “Im’ tired of hearing complaints about trans in public spaces, pls keep it for yourself, we dont care”. I think we all agree that the argument is not really good in any case, but as the second one was a reply, maybe we can see it as an application of first comment’s logic to itself.
Help my fragile gender identity is being harmed by the trans agenda
It was probably unproductive of me to try to talk about it further with them, and I really wanted to sign off with “btw I’m nonbinary” on every reply I made
What exactly would that even be? “hnghh, we respect other people’s choices and individuality, hngggh” How awful. All we want is to have the same respect and autonomy granted to straight and/or cis people to be granted to us.
And that’s harmful because unless you truly are consistent and also don’t want men to mention their girlfriends or wives and for women to never mention their boyfriends or husbands around you, you’re treating people differently based on their gender or sexuality, allowing someone to talk about their home life, what they may have done over the weekend with their partner, but only if it ain’t gay or trans.
Literally the entire point of pronouns is defeated if people don’t know what pronouns a person uses (and this applies to more than just trans people too), so there is some use for people that put them in their name.
Beyond that though, even if there’s no need to say or publicly display something, that doesn’t mean one shouldn’t say it, and it definitely doesn’t mean one should be forbidden from saying it. There’s no need for people to tell me about their hobbies, or wear t-shirts or put up bumper stickers with messages on them, or put up religious symbols everywhere. Perhaps I’m tired of seeing messaging for political candidates I don’t like, and wish they’d keep their preferences to themselves, or perhaps I don’t care if people are married, they could just keep it between themselves rather than wear some rings to tell the world about it. But you know what? If I were to support making it illegal to say and show and wear an express such things, especially on the internet where the stakes are even lower, I’d be closer to the leader of something like the Taliban or North Korea, than to a good citizen of a democracy.
Even if you think saying/displaying/supporting something is “attention seeking”, well, people have a right to do that. To try to restrict that would be to restrict the right to free speech itself, because you cannot communicate with someone without first getting their attention.
True that, but i never said it should be forbidden, i just said i’d prefer if it would be
I really don’t think you are, because most people don’t realize how broad things will get. While right now, the targets are trans and gay people, people who write and pass these sorts of laws don’t want to stop there. When I said “deviations”, I wasn’t just speaking about ‘us queers’, but also about men with long hair, women with flat chests, literally anyone who doesn’t mould themselves into the right wing’s view of “Man” and “Woman”. I don’t think you want the colour of your shirts policed, or for cops to come in and throw a woman out of the restroom because she wasn’t “feminine” enough to someone.
If you don’t care, then why does it bother you so much to see them merely existing in public or online?
I’d like to suggest that you ignore pronouns or pride flags since they clearly don’t appeal to you, but like many things in life, what doesn’t matter to you might matter to one of the other 7 billion or so human beings on the planet with you, and putting the pronouns in the bio or displaying a pride flag actively communicates safety and creates a welcoming atmosphere, while also helping us find like-minded people and make friendships.
can cis people put pronouns in their name
Hopefully nothing stopping you, and it can avoid some awkward situations. My company forbids us from including them in our email signature block, and there’s been some confusion due to people assuming I’m a woman and using she/her pronouns to refer to me. Even as a cis white guy, I wish my company let us add preferred pronouns to avoid dumb little situations like that.
I’m sorry to put you on a spotlight, but your situation is precisely what I was thinking about when I made my comment. Not queer or some woke SJW warrior. You’re just a person trying to live his life, and I have to imagine that a State Law banning you from putting them in anything official or public would be similarly frustrating.
But the thing is, you’re just collateral damage at best to the GOP, and speaking from experience, at worst the target of ire simply for creating such confusion in other people for merely having an ambiguous name, I assume.
Obviously just adding pronouns would be better, but can you add “Mr.” at the beginning of your name in your signature?
Sounds like you need to find a new employer. That is a toxic and discriminatory policy that exists exclusively for one reason: because the executives are raging bigots.
IDK, if she lives in one of these authoritarian right wing regimes in the US, the company might not have a choice.
Yes, and it’s actually appreciated by many trans and nonbinary people, because it normalises the concept.
You seem like a pretty solid poster except for this one pretty bad take. Don’t let dramatic internet discourse and a few attention grabbing media personalities or allies shape your viewpoint for an entire group.
I know you probably already know this but I don’t want good posters leaving Lemmy because of silly disagreements or pet peeves. There are annoying people pushing toxic discourse on any issue. Generally people will live and let live if you don’t personally attack them. Someone specifying their pronouns isn’t attention seeking behavior (usually) it’s just a courtesy. Your comment is just begging for the kind of responses that will require you to give people the kind of attention you claim to hate giving them.
Nah if people with crappy beliefs are posting content everywhere, that’s just more avenues for those bad beliefs to seep out. I’d rather Lemmy loses contributors with those types of bad takes instead of groveling for content like there isn’t enough already.
I agree, but I don’t think that’s this person. I also poked around their post and comments and I didn’t get the feeling they were some rabid Proud Boy or whatever, and I would rather try to engage with people like Hurglet before the actual right-wing does.
I agree to some extent and think that defederation of instances that promote harmful viewpoints such as explodingheads and their users. For others I’d rather promote good behavior rather than engaging with them with a hostile attitude and let attitudes change organically. OP doesn’t exactly fit the bill of a proud boy but has one bad take. If someone wants to block him I understand but I’d rather change his mind
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I get downvoted a lot too. But after reading this, I think the downvote buttons might actually mean you’re right, because there are a lot of retards on lemmy who drool their way through life and have no idea what they’re talking about.
Because you’re right. I can tell by the downvotes. The more you get, the fighter you are
Wtf is this argument ? Are you at the same time validating “Ugh trans people are attention seeker, they think they deserve it because people hate on them” and “Hey look at us, we are the heroes of this story because people on internet disagree with us” ? I know i already replied to your other comments, but it’s funny it’s the same in both case : you just do what you criticize other people for supposedly doing
Strange, it’s displaying as if I replied to a different comment than I intended to.
But really, I’m just mocking people who downvote others because they don’t agree with their comment. I think it’s really lame.
I’d like a place to talk to people, about contentious issues. I personally never use the downvote button and only occasionally even use the upvote button.
When I see a perfectly reasonable comment with -50 downvotes within minutes of posting … it makes me laugh at everyone who just can’t hit that downvote button fast enough.
So I’m really just mocking those people
I think it’s safe to assume that those 50 people who downvoted that comment thought it actually wasn’t perfectly reasonable
Sure, but they’re children
what wrong with that
Children don’t know anything yet. They haven’t lived enough to know anything yet. Because they’re children.
Wait until you’re grown up, you’ll understand that we shouldn’t listen to teenagers about how the world should work.
Just because your opinion is different from the mainstream doesn’t mean you’re cool and unique, it might just mean you’re a dumb cunt
Tech bros and communist teenagers aren’t ‘mainstream’.
Don’t believe everything you read on social media
they’re all in for discrimination against trans and gay people
You spend too much time online.
how
I mean, you mocked them using the exact reasoning you criticize them for, like “making a show of being hated -> attention seeker”. But ok, let’s forget about that. You may consider that you are actually mocking communities that are the target of true violence, not just downvotes. Like they get hurt, killed, harassed, even by administrations and systems ? Maybe that’s the reason for your downvotes. And did you realized that this is really the main use of downvotes ? Just a quick way to react. If you agree/like, upvote. If you do not agree/dislike, downvote. It’s very simple really. Either you don’t get that, either you are mocking people for using tools the way they were intended to. Both ways seem dumb to me. If you want a place that do not allows this quick reactions that are up/downvotes, well maybe switch for other platforms that are not designed around it ?
I don’t subscribe to the idea that tweets or message boards or ideas or ‘silence’ is violence.
The upvote system was invented to put relevant discussion to the top, and hide irrelevant discussion. What people have done with it is use it as a like/dislike button.
If that’s what it was, that’s what it would be called. Like Facebook, which has an actual ‘like’ button
But I do think people who even interact with the system are losers. That’s my personal, anecdotal, opinion of them
Yeah, i kinda agree with you, social media violence is “not” violence, or at least a lesser violence. This was my point : trans are the target of true violence, while being tired of hearing about them is not being target of true violence. This asymmetry may be the cause of that much people disagreeing with you.
On the up/downvote origin, you are right, i did not knew it. Everytime i have seen it used, and so everytime i used it, it was as a like/dislike option. You genuinely are the first person i see complaining about it, so i considered you wrong on this, my bad. But the idea still remains in a different way : though you are technically right, maybe you still can consider that using up/down as like/dislike is a common thing to do.
On the Facebook point, i do not know. It is rather a “like” system than a “like/dislike” : there isn’t really a way to disagree with a statement (the “angry” emoji being the closest, but it just conveys that you are angry, not if you agree with the com or not).
Well, let’s take it as a personal opinion then. Now here’s mine : people seeking attention by complaining about supposedly attention seekers are double losers, first because of my judgment, and second because of their own judgment.
I dunno, man. It’s a weird perspective to have when you’re me. I don’t hate trans people, I don’t hate gay people, I don’t hate minorities, I want everyone to be happy and healthy and free.
I just don’t agree with the lefts way of getting there and I don’t agree that their ‘goodness’ actually is coming from a place of good. I think people get wrapped up on the promises, I think trans rights are just the same as everyone else’s rights.
I don’t think trans people experience any more actual violence than any of us do. I’m just as likely to get beat up walking down the street as anyone else is.
I think the media and left wing educators are distracting us from the issues we should be up in arms about and feeding the masses a story to enact.
And I think lemmy is a huge symptom of that. This is not a diverse place. And any diversity of thought is struck down with the strength of a thousand suns.
I don’t think anyone deserves anymore rights than anyone else, and if you’re specifically talking about trans, if you wouldn’t give a 10yo girl breast augmentation surgery because she wanted bigger boobs, or a child penis injections because he wanted a bigger dick, why would you invert a 10yo penis to create a neo-vagina?
That’s not about ‘rights’. Those rights aren’t afford to only trans kids and then you tell an 8yo “no, I’m sorry you can’t get a tattoo on your face”. It’s disingenuous. How do you k ow how badly they want a face tattoo? Why would you deny them their sense of self in that way? Is that not hatecthen?
My slap down trans argument will always be this: if you’re an adult, do whatever the fuck you want. Put horns in your head, split your tongue, get tattoos, get bigger breasts, inject synthol into your arms, invert your penis. I don’t care.
But if a child has a perfectly healthy and functioning body, the problem they are having is not with their body, don’t do cosmetic surgery on them.
I get it, a bunch of quack doctors want to do as many of these surgeries as they can. These idiots would be lining up lobotomy patients too, if they still could.
Because they are quack doctors. They are idiots, they are scamming your kids by selling surgery to kids parents to treat a problem that isn’t physical.
And that’s all I have to say about that