First responder here. The DNR doesn’t mean a damn thing until it is literally in your hands. Until that time you respond as though there is no DNR. If you’re wrong and they did have one but just didn’t have it on hand then you accidentally save someones life, you’re still legally in the clear, and I guess they can just die sometime later. But if the DNR turns out not to be real/legitimate and you didn’t act just because you were told there was one then you just killed someone and you’re completly fucked.
If you have a family member that has a DNR then be damn sure everyone knows where that thing is because unless you have it physically there when they are dieing then it doesn’t mean anything.
Of course in places like nursing homes there is a different procedure. They know who has one on file and they will usually tell dispatch about it before the ambulance is even sent. But if it happens just in your home or someplace then the ambulance crew can’t just take your word for it; they need the document in hand.
The DNR doesn’t mean a damn thing until it is literally in your hands.
How does the DNR get into the first responder’s hand in practice? Do you get an emergency call and drive there as fast as you can through red lights with your siren on only to be greeted by a relative that made the call handing you the DNR document?
But if the DNR turns out not to be real/legitimate
Are you responsible for validating its legitimacy while in the field, when every second counts?
Sometimes, yes, many times a family member may call EMS to hand them the DNR, this ensures proper procedures are followed when dealing with the body, less mess, and a quicker certification of death. It may also be important in situations where the person is influencial or rich and ensures you cannot be accused of foul play.
No, DNRs have certain things that make them official, signatures and notarized markings. Usually one person will begin life saving measures while the ither verifies the DNR. EMS never work alone.
For the first question. The responders will act exactly as if there is no DNR until you give it to them. Yes, that sometimes means wasted effort but it’s better than the alternative.
For your second question, by legitimate I basically just mean that it’s not written in crayon on a piece of notebook paper or something. Generally speaking the forms are pretty standard and issued by the healthcare provider. Generally you’re just looking for a physicians signature and a date. Some states also allow DNR medical jewelry. The exact specifics on the DNR do vary a lot based on state and county so the local responders will know what they need for their area. As far as every second counting goes, that’s why you have a whole ambulance crew.
You’ve usually planned out the end with your partner/family/caretaker if you have a DNR and they would more than likely be ready to produce your DNR (and medical history) when you need to call an ambulance or go to a hospital for any reason.
Not illegal, good samaritan laws protect you either way. However, there is a “duty to rescue” if:
1: You created the hazard that lead the person into danger, you must provide rescue.
2: A special relationship exists. Spouses must rescue each other, parents must rescue children, employers must rescue employees, property owners to invitees but not trespassers.
3: In some jurisdictions you have a duty to notify, which is usually calling the police, but you do not have to take any measures to help them beyond that. Only 10 states require this and is never actually enforced.
So if your spouse is drowning and you’re not a good swimmer you have to go die with them or you get in trouble? Obviously if there is a flotation device you’d use that but what if there isn’t like in a river or something?
I realize that other comments have already explained the law better than I could. I still wanted to say that fortunately, jumping in to drown alongside them doesn’t legally count as “helping,” so there is no expectations for anyone to do so.
Oh yes, I was cheekily agreeing with that. It’s always good to spread the information that the end result of a person who isn’t specifically trained in rescue swimming attempting to swim out and rescue a drowning person is almost always just the two drowning together, even if the would-be rescuer is an otherwise strong swimmer.
You’re legally required to help, not risk your own life while doing so.
If somebody is drowning you need to call the emergency services and if there is a rescue buoy close by you can throw that as well and try to pull them to shore that way.
I am not a lawyer, but I think in the majority of cases you should be covered by calling the emergency services.
As a side note: unless you’re a lifeguard or have had proper training, jumping in to save somebody drowning is dangerous. A person drowning will try to hold on to anything to stay afloat and will likely try to push you under trying to stay above water.
Yeah the holding other people down for one breath of air is what I am talking about, I was being a tad silly with my question but I appreciate your answer
You have to take “reasonable, actionable steps to rescue another in a hazardous or dangerous situation.” This may mean just calling the police, or in a case like drowning, throwing a life preserver and flaging down a lifeguard.
I’d assume the law has words along the lines of “as much as reasonably possible”, if there’s nothing you can do besides watch, well, that’s all you can do.
No, courts have ruled the tattoo could mean anything, and you need to provide the documentation for it to count. The tattoo could lead to them looking for a DNR though.
First responder here. The DNR doesn’t mean a damn thing until it is literally in your hands. Until that time you respond as though there is no DNR. If you’re wrong and they did have one but just didn’t have it on hand then you accidentally save someones life, you’re still legally in the clear, and I guess they can just die sometime later. But if the DNR turns out not to be real/legitimate and you didn’t act just because you were told there was one then you just killed someone and you’re completly fucked.
If you have a family member that has a DNR then be damn sure everyone knows where that thing is because unless you have it physically there when they are dieing then it doesn’t mean anything.
Of course in places like nursing homes there is a different procedure. They know who has one on file and they will usually tell dispatch about it before the ambulance is even sent. But if it happens just in your home or someplace then the ambulance crew can’t just take your word for it; they need the document in hand.
How does the DNR get into the first responder’s hand in practice? Do you get an emergency call and drive there as fast as you can through red lights with your siren on only to be greeted by a relative that made the call handing you the DNR document?
Are you responsible for validating its legitimacy while in the field, when every second counts?
Sometimes, yes, many times a family member may call EMS to hand them the DNR, this ensures proper procedures are followed when dealing with the body, less mess, and a quicker certification of death. It may also be important in situations where the person is influencial or rich and ensures you cannot be accused of foul play.
No, DNRs have certain things that make them official, signatures and notarized markings. Usually one person will begin life saving measures while the ither verifies the DNR. EMS never work alone.
EMS is such a worthy occupation. I admire EMS workers so much.
For the first question. The responders will act exactly as if there is no DNR until you give it to them. Yes, that sometimes means wasted effort but it’s better than the alternative.
For your second question, by legitimate I basically just mean that it’s not written in crayon on a piece of notebook paper or something. Generally speaking the forms are pretty standard and issued by the healthcare provider. Generally you’re just looking for a physicians signature and a date. Some states also allow DNR medical jewelry. The exact specifics on the DNR do vary a lot based on state and county so the local responders will know what they need for their area. As far as every second counting goes, that’s why you have a whole ambulance crew.
You’ve usually planned out the end with your partner/family/caretaker if you have a DNR and they would more than likely be ready to produce your DNR (and medical history) when you need to call an ambulance or go to a hospital for any reason.
What if I just avoid people who look like they’re dying?
Not illegal, good samaritan laws protect you either way. However, there is a “duty to rescue” if:
1: You created the hazard that lead the person into danger, you must provide rescue.
2: A special relationship exists. Spouses must rescue each other, parents must rescue children, employers must rescue employees, property owners to invitees but not trespassers.
3: In some jurisdictions you have a duty to notify, which is usually calling the police, but you do not have to take any measures to help them beyond that. Only 10 states require this and is never actually enforced.
So if your spouse is drowning and you’re not a good swimmer you have to go die with them or you get in trouble? Obviously if there is a flotation device you’d use that but what if there isn’t like in a river or something?
I realize that other comments have already explained the law better than I could. I still wanted to say that fortunately, jumping in to drown alongside them doesn’t legally count as “helping,” so there is no expectations for anyone to do so.
I was hinting at the fact that drowning people will drown you to live themselves lol
Oh yes, I was cheekily agreeing with that. It’s always good to spread the information that the end result of a person who isn’t specifically trained in rescue swimming attempting to swim out and rescue a drowning person is almost always just the two drowning together, even if the would-be rescuer is an otherwise strong swimmer.
Note: I am not a lawyer.
You’re legally required to help, not risk your own life while doing so. If somebody is drowning you need to call the emergency services and if there is a rescue buoy close by you can throw that as well and try to pull them to shore that way.
I am not a lawyer, but I think in the majority of cases you should be covered by calling the emergency services.
As a side note: unless you’re a lifeguard or have had proper training, jumping in to save somebody drowning is dangerous. A person drowning will try to hold on to anything to stay afloat and will likely try to push you under trying to stay above water.
Yeah the holding other people down for one breath of air is what I am talking about, I was being a tad silly with my question but I appreciate your answer
You have to take “reasonable, actionable steps to rescue another in a hazardous or dangerous situation.” This may mean just calling the police, or in a case like drowning, throwing a life preserver and flaging down a lifeguard.
I’d assume the law has words along the lines of “as much as reasonably possible”, if there’s nothing you can do besides watch, well, that’s all you can do.
If employers must rescue employees, shouldn’t Amazon be in more trouble when they just leave corpses hanging around for days on end?
Yes, should be
Does it count if tattooed on their chest?
No, courts have ruled the tattoo could mean anything, and you need to provide the documentation for it to count. The tattoo could lead to them looking for a DNR though.
“Ask about my DNR” would be a funny tattoo.
Depends on the state and county. I’m sure some county somewhere allows that. Medical jewelry is also allowed for a DNR in some states.
But why can’t Anon just legally kill his neighbor?