cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/3089104

NEWPORT NEWS — The Newport News Education Association President condemned the premise of the school division’s motion to dismiss Abigail Zwerner’s pending $40 million lawsuit.

The motion was filed last week by attorneys representing the School Board and argues that Zwerner, who was shot in her classroom at Richneck Elementary in January by a 6-year-old student, is only entitled to file a worker’s compensation claim because the injury she sustained from the shooting is a “workplace injury,” and that the shooting was a hazard of the job.

  • DigitalTraveler42@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    167
    ·
    1 year ago

    You guys saying “well are they wrong?” Are missing the point, the lawyer is attempting to normalize school shootings, and he’s trying to do this in order to let the school get away with not taking the appropriate steps to prevent this incident from happening.

    • Atomic@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      20
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      1 year ago

      Not fair to blame the lawyer though. He’s hired to defend them to the best of his ability.

      You want to be mad. Be mad at the school that agreed that this is the defense they agreed to go for.

      • iegod@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        23
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        You know, fuck that. I don’t agree. The lawyer is willfully making people and society worse in this defense, consciously. That is indefensible and condemnable.

        • RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          18
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          There’s nothing stopping lawyers from dropping clients that make them go against their morals, so either the lawyer has no morals or their morals weigh less than the paycheck they’ll get.

          • Atomic@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            They’re there to do their job. Creating the best defense possible. Why is that not fair given that the prosecution will do everything in their power to maximize damages?

            I don’t agree with the defense either. But who am I to say they can’t have one? It’s for the court to decide what happens next. I fully expect the prosecution, and the court to slam the defense to the ground.

        • Atomic@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Everyone has the right to the best defense possible. That’s the only way it works.

          The defense does everything they can for their client. The prosecution does everything they can for theirs. And somewhere in the middle you’ll often find justice.

      • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        No, I choose to blame the guy making money by defending the status quo.

        He could have chosen an honorable career, instead chose to defend scumbags for $$$.

        • Atomic@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Again. Either everyone is entitled to the best defense possible. Or no one is. Because who’s going to decide who can get a good defense and not?

          Do you know how many people have been tried for crimes they didn’t commit? People have been falsely accused of rape and gone to trial.

          Do they not deserve a good lawyer? Or is your moral compass going to decide ahead of each trial who is innocently accused or not to determine if they are allowed a lawyer or not?

      • Atomic@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        The lawsuit is based on that she told the school multiple times about this kid, but no action was taken. That the schools negligence is the cause of her injury.

        Rather than this being a random shooting

    • roguetrick@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      31
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Yeah, that makes sense. This filling isn’t wrong to attempt, but there’s also no reason to not believe negligence wasn’t involved in protecting their teachers. I doubt the judge will dismiss based on this reasoning. That’s what the trial is for. I don’t blame the attorney for trying though, and I don’t doubt the reasoning will be a very large part of their defense in the end.

    • baldingpudenda@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      60
      ·
      1 year ago

      While I understand the assholes are trying to get a lower payment, if this is a workplace hazard, then every teacher should sue for back hazard pay, violations on clearly showing it’s a possibility and expectation to get shot, and I’m sure OSHA has something on providing proper PPE. It’s a workplace hazard after all.

          • pips@lemmy.film
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            20
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            The Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired in 2004. In the civilian context, an assault weapon is semiautomatic. Fully automatic weapons are, to put it lightly, uncommon among civilians so assault weapon refers to a variety of styles of semiautomatic firearm.

              • pips@lemmy.film
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Why is what? Why did the ban expire? It had a sunset date and wasn’t extended. Why are fully autos not popular? Combination of laws and practicality. Why are certain civilian semiauto rifles called assault weapons? Military has assault rifles, civilians use the broader term assault weapons to capture a broader category.

                Why not go after handguns? NRA and their ilk keep blocking those efforts.

            • killa44@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              10
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Consider this: not everyone familiar with firearms is a right wing lunatic. In fact, there is a surprisingly large and generally quite chunk of the population that is moderate to left leaning with various levels of support for civilian firearm ownership. If you go far enough left you find the people actually willing to fight for the good of the people and against tyranny (not like, "no step on snek tyranny, but more a long the lines of the black Panthers of old, or the current volunteers providing armed protection to lgbtq events in Texas, etc).

              How would you suggest that such a person point out to you that you’re using emotionally charged language to create a false dichotomy and ramble off blatant ad hominem attacks?

              Here’s something else to consider: the US government is bad at writing laws. If you want a great example, check the CAFE emissions standards. Using a chart that effectively allows bigger vehicles to get lower mileage has not resulted in manufactures making more fuel efficient vehicles, it’s resulted in larger vehicles. This is why you can’t buy a small pickup truck like the old ranger or s-10. So people are forced to buy larger vehicles (that use more resources to manufacture) that get worse mileage, and in turn actually increasing total fuel consumption. That’s obviously really stupid if you think about it for a few minutes.

              Most gun laws are equally as stupid and short sighted, but because the topic is more political and constantly in the news (even though the planet burning up is way more important, but I digress) it is debated more emotionally. In the example above if one doesn’t take the time to understand general concepts about modern vehicles, legislation, and the various terms used to describe it, they won’t have an educated opinion. An uneducated opinion is just noise.

              This is relevant to firearms because most laws are feature restrictions of some kind. For example, banning a vertical foregrip. Defining what that is surprisingly tricky, and the government gets it wrong, or leaves loopholes, or has some other weird side effect. That’s ignoring the fact that the purpose of a foregrip is to give the shooter better ergonomics and control. More control is safer and the odds of a shooter missing a target are reduced. So why would the government decide to ban something that is effectively a safety device while using incorrect jargon? Great question! Go ask the state of California, and new Jersey, etc.

              At the end of the day, the only way to eliminate gun violence is to eliminate all guns. In the US that is logically impossible even if the constitution and will of the people is ignored. Calling something “assault” is as meaningless as cereal manufacturers saying a bowl of sugary carbs in milk is good for your heart.

                • killa44@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I think you need to go re-read and do some research. I never suggested a solution to school shootings at all. If you want one it’s simple: better quality of life overall, better quality education, and guaranteed social services of various kinds. This is quite straightforward.

                  Now, if you’ll stop putting words in my mouth I’ll give you one more try. Otherwise, it seems like it’s you that’s sticking to the talking points and not at all paying attention.

            • PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              6
              arrow-down
              8
              ·
              1 year ago

              If you want to solve a problem you need to understand the problem, using terms like “assault rifle” when 97% of all gun violence uses hand-guns including school shootings shows you don’t actually care about understanding the problem, let alone solve it.

          • TheHighRoad@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Short-barrel carbine ban doesn’t have the same ring. I still think they should go as they really amount to nothing more than murder fantasy toys for grown boys.

    • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      I read a little more about it. They are saying that she was entitled to claim workman’s comp, but refused to do so. She has thus far refused benefits to which she was/is entitled.

      Their theory is that whatever damages are eventually assessed in this case should not include the benefits she is entitled to receive separate and apart from the case. This would be important if she is awarded triple damages, for example. They are effectively arguing that the medical bills shouldn’t be tripled, even if every other claim is.

      It’s a technical point, but likely a solid one.

  • Damage@slrpnk.net
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    129
    ·
    1 year ago

    Well, okay then. Did the school do everything it could to mitigate this professional hazard?

    Let’s see the “school shooting” part of the risk assessment, the prevention steps taken, the training, and so on.

    • Empricorn@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I’d love to see the data on deaths at shooting ranges vs schools. And by “love” I mean that I’ll probably be queasy to learn more people die at schools than shooting ranges.

      • darcy@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        12
        ·
        1 year ago

        i mean…there is a LOT more security/safety measures in a shooting range Because there are a lot more guns. even if someone went on a killing spree they would be shot by one of the other dozen people holding a loaded weapon. not defending school shootings.

      • Ondergetekende@feddit.nl
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        To be fair, that’s true for most US headlines these days:

        • coup-leader repliblican favorite for president.
        • Pro-life movement causes infant and maternal mortality to rise.
        • Debt ceiling negotiations will start about 4 weeks before deadline.
  • atrielienz@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    48
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    If we’re not going to enact common sense gun laws and protections for the public, then it is a workplace injury. She should still be allowed to sue those responsible for not protecting her and the children in her care, but when you normalize school shootings this is what you get. If a cop can say getting shot is a workplace injury and receive compensation for the rest of his life, so should she.

    • aard@kyu.de
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      48
      ·
      1 year ago

      If I understand the article correctly they’re trying to say it’s a workplace injury to cap the payout to something lower than she was trying to get.

      • atrielienz@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        24
        ·
        1 year ago

        That’s absolutely what they’re saying. And I don’t agree that the payout should be capped. Especially when in some places it’s not capped for cops. But on the other hand… This is the worst time line.

    • NounsAndWords@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      1 year ago

      The way the law is set up (and thus the reason the lawyers are arguing it) is that you can’t sue your employer for a workplace injury, it is purely a workers compensation (insurance) claim, and those do not pay any millions of dollars, and also the school would be covered by their insurance.

  • Hyzerflip@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    43
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    1 year ago

    Were they at work when the injury occurred? Check Were there safeguards that the workplace could have done to prevent the injury? Check.

    • dreugeworst@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      yeah man the woke libtards have gone too far, do they really expect to survive their jobs?? so privileged!

  • inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    22
    ·
    1 year ago

    Only in in gun nut America would anyone in their right mind would call being fucking shot a ‘workplace injury’. I mean if this is what is expected then they should be making 100K+ a year since they face being shot more than being a cop.

  • aceshigh@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    1 year ago

    James Graves, the president of the Newport News teachers union

    Graves said, “These lawyers have started a significant hurricane in our district by saying that being shot is part of what teachers signed up for.”

    this is grim but when i saw his last name, the first thing i thought of was nominative determinism theory (hypothesis that people tend to gravitate towards areas of work which reflect their names.)

    lastly, at what point does something become labeled a “work hazard”? i’m looking forward to seeing how this case pans out. also, i wonder how insurance companies are going to react to this.

  • ThePantser@midwest.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    1 year ago

    What happened to holding the parent liable for what their kids do? Like the Oxford MI shooting the parents were charged. Lets keep doing that, keep charging the parents for the kids crimes. Maybe parents will take a more vested interest in what the fuck their kids are doing, watching, websites they are viewing.

    • 🦥󠀠󠀠󠀠󠀠󠀠󠀠@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Charging parents for kids crimes will just be used as a weapon to lock up parents that authorities don’t like. The only way to stop school shootings is to have better gun laws in the first place, as unpopular as that might be in America.

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Maybe true to an small extent, but if you own a firearm and have a kid in the house, it’s your responsibility to ensure they can’t access it. Responsible gun ownership should be the norm and expectation, and to an extent legally required as well.

        • 🦥󠀠󠀠󠀠󠀠󠀠󠀠@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          In that particular case, 100% the parents should be responsible as they failed in their duty to lock up their firearm like responsible firearm owners. It’s the latter part that’s important, it doesn’t matter if they were also parents or not.

          You can’t apply a blanket rule to hold parents responsible for all of their kids criminal actions. It will lead to much more child abuse and worse.

          • Cethin@lemmy.zip
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I don’t think anyone is saying they should be responsible because he performed a criminal action. They are saying they should be held responsible, at least as accomplices, because they facilitated access to the firearm that was used in the act. Parents obviously shouldn’t be held responsible if their kids purchase weed from someone and use it where they had no involvement or knowledge, for example, but that’s not what happened in this case.

  • BarqsHasBite@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    I wonder if you’re a postal worker and get shot by another postal worker if it’s a workplace injury. If that’s a workplace hazard.

    • Atomic@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Isn’t any injury at a workplace by definition, a workplace-injury?

      The question is who is liable? Seems like people think the employee is liable by default if it’s branded a workplace injury.

    • Neve8028@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      1 year ago

      Huh? Did you read the article? The district is arguing that it’s a workplace injury to prevent paying out more money.