hey folks, here’s a quick update on our decision to defederate from
sh.itjust.works! (and here’s sh.itjust.works
[https://sh.itjust.works/post/129725]’s side of this update) we got in touch
with the head admin over there, The Dude, and we had a pretty good chat about
our concerns and reason for defederating. while immediate re-federation is just
bluntly off the table with the rudimentary state of Lemmy’s moderation tools, we
now have a pretty good idea of the roadmap to refederating with them. we think
we’ll eventually be able to do this, although we don’t have a timetable on when
yet. we’re also now collaborating with him on how to move forward–and in the
weeks and months to come we’ll be pushing to expedite the process of developing
some of the necessary tools. this decision has really helped us make connections
that can hopefully realize those tools both on the desktop side and in apps
being developed for Lemmy. we’re also hoping to collaborate with other Lemmy
administrators who have needs like our own, or just generally want more granular
tools at their disposal. we did also get in touch with the lemmy.world owner
prior to defederating to share the concerns that prompted us to
defederate[^1]–but we have not received any communication from him since it was
levied, so there’s no roadmap at all there as of now. we’re always open to
reconsidering and collaborating to end the defederation with him, but for now
the earliest i can give you is “when mod tools are in a better state”. that’s
all for now folks. if any new significant developments take place we’ll announce
them as needed. [^1]: we’re only bringing this up now because it was just not
useful information in the context of our announcement. it almost certainly would
have been interpreted as some sort of callousness and/or brought unnecessary
sectarianism and grief to him. at the end of the day he has his reasons and
desires for running lemmy.world how he does, and we have ours for running Beehaw
as we do. because of social and technological circumstances those are just
incompatible right now, and that’s fine.
(Posting to lemmy.world seems to be disabled so I’m posting this here instead.)
This inconsistency has been bothering me, so I went poking around in their support community, and the best I could find was a statement saying they had reached out to the admins of both. Apparently they expected @ruud@lemmy.world to reply to something that didn’t seem like a question as indicated by his response in Beehaw Support. As such, they claim to have no roadmap to eventually refederate with lemmy.world.
I added a reply from another instance, but I’m guessing I won’t receive a reponse so if anyone knows, I would like to better understand the issue. It’s quite annoying feeling like I’m missing out, especially when I’m seeing inflammatory overly generalized statements from kbin.social users about how lemmy.world deserved to be defederated over in this post on lemmy.ml.
Unpopular opinion but I don’t think refederation with beehaw.org should be on the table. They loved the concept of federation when they needed users, and then once they’ve grown enough they said okay now we’re gonna be a closed island and the other peasants need to rise to our standards before we refederate with them. The moderation excuse is obviously not sincere as users could have easily volunteered to moderate.
No matter how fancy their writing is (and there was indeed lots of it, why try too hard to justify the decision?), I think the trust has been broken. Why would I comment on their threads ever again and risk having my content “locked” in their instance if they go on another ego trip and defederate again?
I just want to know why only some of the large communities were hit. My best guess so far from memory is lemmy.ml was struggling to stay online and federated during that time, and kbin.social had their Cloudflare DDOS protection enabled breaking federation so maybe they were not an immediate concern on the day the announcement was made. I’ve no clue why they have not since defederated with lemmy.ml and kbin.social since both are currently federating with everyone.
As far as refederating with Beehaw.org goes, lemmy.world is only defederated with one unrelated instance so we never actually stopped federating with them. It’s just a one way street stuck in time since we get no new content.
That is some damning evidence that they really did defederate over effectively nothing. I don’t quite understand how the modlog works or how to filter it, so I’m glad you were able to research that and confirm because I was curious if there were a lot of records in there leading up to the defederation.
TBH, as I haven’t spun up my own instance to see what admins can do, I can’t say for sure if what I see is the whole record.
That said, the modlog is described in the docs as being there to provide transparency, so at face value, it seems that five people may have been all it took.
I also haven’t looked closely into what “purged a user” means vs the other more transparent actions on the modlog, so I have to say, “take all these comments with a grain of salt.” I’m still learning about lemmy as a platform.
I may be mistaken, but from what I gather the modlog is…Kind of a mess. It appears to aggregate the admin/mod actions of admins & mods across instances & communities, and doesn’t allow for filtering to the specific instance or community.
You can see this if you come across someone that’s been banned in a different instance but made a new account in another with the same name by filtering the modlog by username (albeit that can be finicky, like a lot of things atm).
I don’t really like beehaw due to a recent experience with them misleading people extremely severely that nobody but me seemed to really acknowledge. but if anything I stick to World.
Unpopular opinion but I don’t think refederation with beehaw.org should be on the table. They loved the concept of federation when they needed users, and then once they’ve grown enough they said okay now we’re gonna be a closed island and the other peasants need to rise to our standards before we refederate with them. The moderation excuse is obviously not sincere as users could have easily volunteered to moderate.
No matter how fancy their writing is (and there was indeed lots of it, why try too hard to justify the decision?), I think the trust has been broken. Why would I comment on their threads ever again and risk having my content “locked” in their instance if they go on another ego trip and defederate again?
I just want to know why only some of the large communities were hit. My best guess so far from memory is lemmy.ml was struggling to stay online and federated during that time, and kbin.social had their Cloudflare DDOS protection enabled breaking federation so maybe they were not an immediate concern on the day the announcement was made. I’ve no clue why they have not since defederated with lemmy.ml and kbin.social since both are currently federating with everyone.
As far as refederating with Beehaw.org goes, lemmy.world is only defederated with one unrelated instance so we never actually stopped federating with them. It’s just a one way street stuck in time since we get no new content.
@Jessica@lemmy.world I noticed your comment in one of the threads linked and I share your sentiment.
Furthermore, if I look over at beehaw’s modlog, I see only five (5) moderator actions against lemmy.world users and one community removal.
Did they really defederate because they had five users to moderate? Does anyone see something I’m missing in the log?
Edit: woke up a bit more and realized you are OP so simplified my comment
That is some damning evidence that they really did defederate over effectively nothing. I don’t quite understand how the modlog works or how to filter it, so I’m glad you were able to research that and confirm because I was curious if there were a lot of records in there leading up to the defederation.
TBH, as I haven’t spun up my own instance to see what admins can do, I can’t say for sure if what I see is the whole record.
That said, the modlog is described in the docs as being there to provide transparency, so at face value, it seems that five people may have been all it took.
I also haven’t looked closely into what “purged a user” means vs the other more transparent actions on the modlog, so I have to say, “take all these comments with a grain of salt.” I’m still learning about lemmy as a platform.
I may be mistaken, but from what I gather the modlog is…Kind of a mess. It appears to aggregate the admin/mod actions of admins & mods across instances & communities, and doesn’t allow for filtering to the specific instance or community.
You can see this if you come across someone that’s been banned in a different instance but made a new account in another with the same name by filtering the modlog by username (albeit that can be finicky, like a lot of things atm).
That makes sense that it’s not necessarily what it first seems.
I don’t really like beehaw due to a recent experience with them misleading people extremely severely that nobody but me seemed to really acknowledge. but if anything I stick to World.