I just want cheap and reliable mass transit.
Yes! Fuck this individualistic “you should cycle instead of taking the car” language. We need collective investment in mass transit, because not everyone can bike to work, and even less people want to do it in the rain.
I cycle almost every where, at every weather, but at distances above 30km, it’s just taking too long to be viable for every day tasks or visiting friends and family.
Public transport is neccessary.
I used to cycle out of necessity but after a while i just got sick of it from either not wearing enough and being too cold, wearing too much and being too hot, and having to guess correctly whether it’ll rain or not but be miserable even if I prepared for it.
I always have my rain poncho with me. I love when it rains because it feels like sitting in a tent where your head sticks out.
I always get too hot under anything waterproof no matter how cold it actually is outside, especially if I’m exercising. I hate how they eventually feel like they’re sticking to your skin
Where you can take your bike with you. The two modes of transportation combined is almost perfect.
Roads and highways would be perfectly fine cycling infrastructure, if we just got the giant motorized death machines off of them.
I liked your comment, but there is a lot more space that could be regained for pedestrians as well if we cyclists took only the space we needed. Car infrastructure is easily converted into one, but not into the other and asphalt causes heat islands.
Plus, roads are important for the people who can’t walk or cycle as well as for emergency services. Goods can’t all be transported by bike, either. Of course, that doesn’t require multiple lanes. Part should be kept, part turned into small green spaces to compensate for the environmental effect of the road, and part should be used for separate cycling and walking spaces. It becomes a bit more complex with streets that aren’t big enough for all that, of course.
And with decreased car use comes increased accesibility and speed for emergency vehicles and essential transport. And if we remove street parking, there will easily be enough space for cycling and walking space. Did you know all parking spaces in the US take up the same surface as the whole of connecticut?
Sure, but I was replying to a comment thread about replacing roads and highways with cycling infrastructure.
They were piggybacking off you, saying there’s even more space to be gained once the usage of cars goes down
I’m autistic and always grateful for comments like this, thanks! Sometimes I genuinely don’t get it.
The emission savings from replacing all those internal combustion engines with zero-carbon alternatives will **not **feed in **fast enough **to make the necessary difference in the time we can spare: the next five years. Tackling the climate and air pollution crises requires curbing all motorised transport, particularly private cars, as quickly as possible. Focusing solely on electric vehicles is slowing down the race to zero emissions.
Ah thank god we still have 5 years. Now the climate scientists just need to advise the general public to start shooting all the cars through the motorblock because it has been scientifically proven that is the one way we’ll make it.
Published: March 29, 2021 10.59am EDT
OH MY GOD!!! WE ONLY HAVE A YEAR LEFT TO MURDER ALL THE CARS??
@LarmyOfLone @grue Shooting the engine block draws too much attention. Home made spike strips and caltrops, on the other hand, can have a chilling effect on drivers. When you never know if the highway is going to be shut down because 30 cars all got flat tires in the same spot, and the devices that caused it are attached to the road with epoxy or JB Weld.
Haha well that could cause serious accidents. And I sort of expected like two decades ago in my naivete that we’d see “electric car conversion shops” spring up. Take out the motor block and tank and replace it with standardized electrical motors and special adapters and just put some lithium battery block in the trunk.
Actually a better idea is just dumping 2-3 cups of sugar in the gas tank. Will muck up the fuel injection system and put it out of commission pronto.
Cycling and walking are also far healthier options since they count for the whole “if you walk at least 30 minutes a day your chances of heart conditions drop by 70%” thing.
Even better, the fewer the cars around, the better it gets for everybody who walks and cycles (due to decreased pollution and less danger on the road).
Even electric cars and even if 100% of our electricity was from renewables still pollute due to the micro-particles produced by the tires when rolling on the road (and heavier vehicles make this worse).
I think cardiovascular disease risk drops more than 70% if you dont eat meat, which is another critical requirement for softening climate catastrophe too
You can eat meat and stay perfectly healthy
I have an EV and I still agree with this. An EV is better than an ICE vehicle but it is no substitute for designing cities around people - footpaths, cycle lanes, recreation, public transport etc.
what do you use your car for? like piano transportation?
Smh I put my piano on my bike racks. It’s the timpani that go in the car - the rain ruins the skins.
To do things. Drove my kid to school 8km at 0610 today for a school trip, then a 20km drive to work, then later to get groceries etc. I wish I could cycle but my personal circumstances don’t allow for it. Doesn’t mean that my situation applies to everyone or that towns & cities shouldn’t be designed with cyclists & pedestrians first, cars second to lessen the need for cars because I think they should.
I am actually considering getting an EV for transporting my Cello :/
It’s unfortunately not possible to reliably transport it by bike (strong winds, icy conditions on my rather hilly ride to the city). Makes me miss out on re-joining an orchestra.
Everything else (groceries, work,…) would still be by bike, just… That.
instrument transportation is a legitimate usecase for a car
What you need is a trailer that you can attach to your bike when you need to haul something large. It works great. I use one that even folds and doesn’t take much room when not in use (it can also be used by hand by adding a little wheel at the front).
I think something that gets regularly overlooked is scooters. They can be gas or electric and they will drastically reduce emissions. ICE scooters can do 100 mpg and the manufacturing emissions are going to be a sliver of what a car or truck would be.
Make one that doesnt go BrrrrAAAP ! And I’m onboard:-D
On a serious note, electric; bikes, scooters, cargo bikes, small utilitarian vehicles, busses are the future of the city IMO.
There are some very cool electric ones now.
I recently bought one that does ~40km on a single charge and doesn’t go above 25km/h and honestly I don’t get why anyone would need more (people living in the hellscape distopya commonly referred to as “the US” need not reply).
Yes, I will cycle 15 miles (one-way) to the nearest produce section.
I’m all for bikes in sufficiently urban areas, but they are never going to be reasonable for 90% of America (by land mass, not population).
We need passenger train service (or other mass transit) that can cover lower density areas and still be reliable. (There’s active train tracks within 100m of both my driveway and the produce section, so for me a passenger train would be ideal.)
It really seems like your phrasing and tone indicate you think your views are incompatible with the thesis of this article, but they aren’t
Sorry, my bad.
If we had passenger trains with bike storage, I would never need a car again. We will never see that in America though. We can barely get infrastructure built. We have no national impetus to get it done.
Okay, so counterpoint: In a lot of ways, the EU is like a country. And it’s a large one - maybe not quite the US’s size, but big. And much of it is bike friendly.
No, people don’t traverse the mountains in their little hand-me-down red bike. But they don’t often traverse those mountains every month anyway. And when they do, trains exist for that.
So this exposes not a landmass problem, but an urban planning problem. It is the easiest thing in the world to stand in the middle of an 8-lane stroad in the boonies, where people are waiting 5 minutes to traverse two blocks of traffic lights to get to the quarter-square-mile parking lot outside their coffee shop, praying you’re not killed as you wait for the walk signal, and scream at the top of your lungs “What in the everloving fuck is the point of all this?” And it would be a family-friendly exasperation since it would be drowned out by engine noise.
We can build about 8 new walking-friendly cities in the space taken up by one goddamn McDonald’s parking lot.
If you think urban planning has anything to do this how I get to the grocery store, you aren’t facing the problem.
The population density of the EU is 106/km2. The population density of my county is 22.4/mi2 (8.64/km2).
In a small European town, you get on your bike, travel two blocks through zero red lights, and arrive at a cozy corner shop that has everything you need for lunch and freshly baked bread. If you don’t have a basket on your bike, you just walk there instead.
The gigastores we associate with groceries in the USA are a product of our car culture. Someone has braved the highway ramps, so they need to bring back a big haul in their large trunk. Of course, that also leads to food being wasted as we buy in bulk and let it expire.
Citing population density is just exemplifying the planning problem. You can look at Australia’s population density too, but it’d be disingenuous to include the large outback - which no one settles into, because why would they. Same question for America’s pointlessly broad frontiers, where everyone just seems to want to get away from each other.
Population density is relevant here, I’m not grabbing a lot of extra uninhabited territory to make the number bigger, I’m just using the smallest organizational unit that includes all my weekly trips.
I’m not trying to get groceries from a gigastore. This grocery store building has been there since I was a child in the 80s and while it is bigger than the store my father used to run, it’s less than 20% the size of the WMT supercenter down the road – half the size of the grocery section of that “gigastore” (it’s not a max size supercenter). But, it is the closest produce section. You can be shelf-stable stuff from the dollar store(s) much closer, but I do sometimes need produce and I’d rather shop at this locally-owmed location than the chain dollar stores. (I don’t even this they are franchises, just corporate owned.)
This is exactly the problem that urban planning is meant to solve. Our specific US problem may not have been solved YET but that doesn’t mean it can’t be. As an engineer, one of our sayings is “anything can be engineered, it just depends on how much money you have”. So for this problem, it’s more about our communal values: if we decide as a community to value public transit and pedestrian friendly urban planning, we put our community funds in those areas instead of centering cars.
I would love to be able to ride trains to get places and not have to drive everywhere.
I don’t dislike driving, but if I could fit my schedule around public transit, I think I’d prefer that, most of the time.
Good public transit would be so frequent you wouldn’t need to fit your schedule around it. I live in a place with passable public transit and I never check schedules before leaving the house. I wait 10 mins max (I’m still annoyed sometimes tho)
So the tracks are already there they just don’t run passenger trains on it?..
worse, a lot of places have “rails2trails” programs where they rip out old train tracks and put in bicycle paths instead.
It makes more sense to put trains there and convert old car roads to bike paths
I like “rails2trails” bike paths because they tend to be flat (since trains can’t handle steep grades unless they’re a funicular or cog railroad), but I agree that running passenger trains again would be even better.
There’s no reason we can’t have more strict requirements of grade for bike roads.
I’ve been in bike roads that ran parallel to car roads. The bike road went up and down while the car road was at a better grade. So I got off the bike road and went on the car road. Its like these idiots think were out riding for fun on weekends or something.
The solution is regulations.
Yep. Passenger service stopped in my area before I was born, but my father remembers being able to use them that way.
Freight trains run through multiple times a day, still.
The “old train depot” meuseam / visitor’s center is literally across the street from the grocery store w/ produce section.
people who live in 90% of the least densely populated land on earth are… not that many people in the grand scheme of things.
And if you live close enough to civilization to have utilities like power maybe it’s possible to also have a grocery store that’s closer than average distance between towns in germany. Might even be beneficial idk.
My father used to run the grocery store in town. My brother ran it for a bit, too. I don’t know the ultimate reasons it ahut down, but Dad wanted to retire and brother decided it wasn’t worth it to run.
There’s a dollar store in town, and an another 5 min north, and another 10 mi. south, but no produce at any.
I want to move back to a more urban area and be able to walk to a grocery store in 15 minutes, but Dad needs someone to live with him since he is now disabled. (Brother died.)
I remember there was a problem getting wholesale deliveries at the small scale needed to serve this town of barely 300 people.
well yeah, nobody is pretending like it’s easy to fix on a personal level. Just that it’s something we should be able to fix as a society because seriously, expecting people to commute 2 hours for a pear isn’t very smart.
I tend to agree, but maybe fresh produce is just considered a luxury. You can certainly survive without it, canned or frozen goods are available in some amount at the dollar stores, and I can walk to/from them.
Why the fuck is the nearest produce section 15 miles away? That’s a major planning failure. Most trips that Americans take are less than 3 miles, so planning by population would be a lot more sensible than planning by land mass.
Well, there are a lot of reasons, I suppose. It’s hard to name just one, but I guess because it isn’t profitable to run a produce section any closer? That’s not a root cause, and it’s not something that reveals individually actionable items, but it’s what I have. I’m not even sure there a collective action the 300 residents could take, other than funding a non-profitable community grocery store, maybe? But most of the residents are living below the poverty line, and the ones that aren’t are either retired or otherwise uninterested in that kind of community action.
There’s only 19k people in the whole county and 15mi. is the distance from where I live to the county seat.
I agree that urban planning should stop subsiding cars. But, America is, by land mass, not very urban, and I’m stuck in one of those areas.
Thats more a problem inherrent to how america builds its cities than it is a problem inherrent to the bicycle. I agree we still need to buld rail, but you would likely still have to increase density to get good ridership. Otherwise you start to sacrafice speed for frequent stops serving low density. A problem many buses already face.
“City” is an optimistic word for where I am compelled (by familial duty) to live. But, we need to plan for my density, too. Otherwise we’ll still have millions of cars on the roads and they will need somewhere to park when they visit the city.
When I visit a real city, I don’t mind paying for parking. I’d prefer not to have to pay for parking to get groceries each week, but that would probably be fine. But biking is not reasonable, and mass transit is unavailable.
Some places build transit stations outside of cities or in specific locations for people to drive to there then transit into the city. This can help control where the cars are instead of havings thousands of cars all trying to find on street parking downtown.
Yeah I see this problem too. I wonder if it might be a zoning issue. I think right now in the US in these areas we have suburban “centers” with Costco’s, Lowe’s, etc. and strip malls. All which require huge large parking areas. How would it look to provide people what they need, without the detrimental effects of car centered land use?
15 mile with an electric bike and good infrastructure that let you go fast is doable. And electric bike is already so much better than a car because it weight much less and as such consume much less. But I agree overall it does not replace a train because people won’t cycle when it rains.
I’d rather cycle when it rains than get a train, assuming it’s not like 3 hours in a freezing temperature watching cars go by while I’m stuck at cyclists-only red light.
That’s still almost an hour each way with the US class 1 ebike limit of 20mph. Not really doable for me or most people purely from a time usage stand point, not to mention 2 hours in the weather if it’s poor.
An electric motorcycle would be a lot more interesting to me, because it’s not held up by the stupid US ebike laws with such low speed limits.
45min-1 hour for one way to work is already what I do with public transport and it considered kind of standard time of commuting in Paris. In bike it is harder I have to admit you have to be willing to spend the time and have the physical condition to do it. The pro of taking public transport is also you can do other things while transporting even if limited but it is less tiring than driving a car or bike :)
Well sure, but if you add another 2 hours to get groceries on top of your commute that becomes kind of difficult right?
I’d be willing to take longer, but I wouldn’t want to do the trip uncovered in the rain. Also, the highway doesn’t have a shoulder in one section, so I’d have to route around that to be safe on the bike, and I don’t know how much length that would add to the trip (and it would probably involve adding travel on unpaved / dirt / gravel roads…)
For what it’s worth, US limit is only 20mph with full motor. Class 3 is allowed, with 28mph (45kph, actually) when using pedal assist. I threw a larger chainring on my eBike to make maintaining 28mph easier and I just pedal everywhere.
Most bike paths are class 1 at least where I am, I don’t think I’m going to pedal faster than 20 especially with a load of groceries.
Even 28mph isn’t that fast when the roads I take to the store on a motorcycle are 45-60mph limits.
State-bound, but this.
Even if you need/prefer an ebike you get about 85 ebike batteries out of one Nissan leaf not even a powerful e-car the most pedestrian one.
Unfortunately I live where its cold and raining 99% of the time. They are trying to build a line from where i live to where I work though so it might be bearable to bike the distance to the station in the rain
Bicycles just aren’t suitable for cold places. They only work in places with warm, sunny weather. Like Norway.
I saw a lot more electric cars than bicycles in most of norway.
The netherlands, a huge cycling country, is also known as a dreary place where it rains more than the sun shines. You just put on a good waterproof outfit and you’re good. Cycling heats you up as well, so as long as you have good clothes I would say its doable up to and including freezing temperatures, depending on the road surface.
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Do you have a source for that?? Because I would be very surprised if this is true from the amount of times I remember arriving at school soaking wet.
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Thanks! So it seems around 10% of commutes are wet for this guy, or around 31 rides per year.
It also helps when your office has showers and indoor parking. This is part of bicycle infrastructure that is normalized the more we ban cars.
Maybe
I get mild frostbite super fast though because my circulation to my fingers are nonexistent
I also unfortunately live in the lands of cars, in the part of the washington where theres no real bike lane and I have to share the road with cars
Please think of putting pressure on your local councils to improve bike infrastructure. GCN recently mentioned that more people are in favor of increasing bike paths (in uk and us studies) but carbrains complain louder, so let yourself be heard!
The Netherlands is also flat as fuck.
Hills are why bikes have gears and there are plenty of chilly hilly places with strong bike infrastructure and culture. Not Just Bikes goes off on this subject frequently. Check them out on nebula or youtube for a laugh and some good information.
Netherlands also has constant eleventy mph winds that try to blow you back to where you started, so there’s that.
Where I live it’s either cold and burns my lungs to do any outside exertion or hot and saps all my energy, with a brief tolerable window between.
I found masks can help with the cold air if you don’t have a scarf
I live in Denmark and despite wind and horrible weather still we manage to bike everywhere for most of our needs.
Summer was unbearably hot, and I decided to commute via a bus with AC instead of a bike, but in september I started using a bike and didn’t stop unless there was pouring or there was snow on the ground.
I even in mild rain I just took my bike. First winter season I used a bike at all, not to mention riding in a full face cover, leather or ski gloves with a ski jacket.
I also researched some motorbike rain pants but we’re in a decade long drought, so far didn’t need them.
One thing tho. If it’s raining you better have disk breaks, the clampy ones just slip on wet wheels. I had to re-learn how to stop safely.
Being waterproof is probably the biggest thing I miss from upgrading to an ebike from an old acoustic bike
Acoustic bike sounds so wonderful.
It makes pleasant sound when you pedal it.
Ebikes should handle rain just fine though (I know mine does). Just don’t ride it into the river.
Riding into a river isn’t a great idea on an acoustic bike either, of course. The main reason is that you don’t want to be swept away by the current. The secondary reason is that you’ll have to clean and re-pack your bearings etc. (especially axles and bottom bracket) afterwards.
Kinda depend on the manufacturer, but the motor should be waterproof. Throttle, the screen, and the connector though, might not. I’m using a conversion kit on my bike and the equipment is those no name cheapo one, but other than the screen condensation after riding through heavy rain, it’s still going strong. You could identify the stuff that need waterproofing and do it yourself though.
I live in a similar climate and use rain pants.
Rain pants and rain overshoes. It’s a bit annoying to take them off after you arrive, but that’s a small
Although I am privileged enough to just take the bus or WFH if the weather is truly terrible (like freezing rain).
Good luck. I hope there isn’t too much wind. I find it the worst part of bad weather cycling
I have the opposite problem. If I tried to bike home from work in the summer, I would literally die of a heat stroke. I biked to college and even when I had a 7am class, I would arrive drenched in sweat and have to do a paper towel bath in the restroom.
All I need now is the knowledge, sense of balance, and confidence to ride a bicycle
If you have enough balance and leg strength to walk
That’s factually not true. I know you try to cheer them up and telling them, you don’t need special abillity or to be fit and sportive to bike, which is true, but what you are saying is not true. They is people with disabilities that affect balance that can walk but not bike at all.
My country runs courses for adults to learn how to bike - maybe yours does the same?
The more you ride, the better you get. Try include cycling into your exercise, and within a year you should be better with it.
If you’re in need of some inspiration; Tom Scott on YouTube made a video of himself learning how to ride a bike. Seeing someone else learn something can be useful, and there’s a lot of little things in the video one can pick up on to avoid common mistakes.
do you have a bicycle?
I used to cycle 7 km to work, but now, after moving to suburban village, there is no way to go other way than car. Especially with small kid. Unless you are fit enough to do 25 km every day by bike and risk your life (and potentially kid’s) on the street between cars. So no, there is not realistic to “fuck cars”. I am speaking from European perspective, probably US has the car things much more fucked up.
risk your life (and potentially kid’s) on the street between cars
I dunno, boss, seems like a plenty good reason to say “fuck cars” to me.
Yes, I can be pissed by cars for that reason, but will this make them disappear or make less needed? Sure, many people could go by bike not the car and they are just lazy bastards, but some just need a car
Did the 2x12km for theee years, only got ran down once.
I did have beast legs though :-)
I had to fix the tyre tube every week (cost similar to LPG fuel) until I started to pump for almost maximal pressure. It was fucking frustrating, also without proper infrastructure, riding a bike is not fun at all
Did you have those slim “racing” wheels? Up the tire size just one size and you’ll be way better off.
I got myself an old mountain bike, works wonders in the city with all the potholes and crap.
Not racing, but trekking tyres. I suppose the mountain bike tires are far better (the city crap bike roads can be worse than mountains I think).
I don’t think you realise how much you’ve been fucked by car. I presume you move out to the suburb not because the city council decided to exile you and never let you stay in the city, you move out because you have a car and can drive 20+km toward your destination, which then mean everything is so out of your way you have to use car to do everything. So no, you’re the one that got fucked by motonormativity and yell “cum inside”, you don’t get to then deny everyone a better solution.
I moved out by rent prices and because no one wanted to rent a flat for family with two small kids, not because of car 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻this is one of dumbest hypotheses I’ve ever heard
dumbest hypotheses
most people that prefer suburb did just that.
Your argument basically just boiled down to “it doesn’t happened to me so it shouldn’t be the case for everyone”, what kind of self absorbed argument is that even?
I don’t think you realise how much you’ve been fucked by car.
So it wasn’t for me?
Idk, you decide? Not sure why you’re here against the idea when it’s not even about you.
no shit sherlock!
but they’re not handicap friendly… public transport serves a purpose… edit: I’m not saying keep using cars, I’m saying get more trains and rail… and then free up space for more bike lanes whatever
They always ignore the rest of the world. Sure you can bike ride in yor little university town built from riches pillaged from the world but the rest of the world? You want India and Africa to ride bikes? Did they include the absolute infrastructure update in their calculations?
“Cars are more accessible for poor people” is certainly a take that someone could have.
Cycling and related infrastructure are orders of magnitude cheaper.
Ah yes cause there’s only cars and bicycling! /s
You know there are other forms of transportation right?
Feel free to make a point if you have one.
Sure I’m paraphrasing my other comment:
Bicycle is just a poor vehicle choice for these regions and I’d argue most of the world in general and I say that as a recreation e-bike lover - its just not a good transporation method for mass adoption.
Motorbikes for one are much more viable because the winters are easy and the terrain can be too difficult for muscle powered bicycles. Also Motorbikes can carry a lot compared to a bike just look up some photos like this one https://i.imgur.com/t4aWcFx.jpeg - that’s a 500-1000usd motorbike doing your job for years. Minimal maintenance and fuel use and relatively low polution. You couldn’t even get a decent e-bike in europe for this.
The rest is filled in by public transportation - busses, trains, rickshaws, converted pick up trucks, minibuses, ferries etc.
I’ve been living in Asia for almost 20 years now and bicycle is not it trust me. It’s only viable for rich compact well developed countries and anyone who says otherwise really needs to get out more.
Cool well this sub is called “fuck cars”, not “fuck everything that’s not a pedal-powered bicycle.”
Like sorry, but you’re arguing against something that just hasn’t been said.
Cars are bad for motorbikes too. Bikes are still way better than cars.
But also, walkability and bicycle friendly infrastructure isn’t out of the reach of south east asian countries. That’s not a feature of wealthy countries - like I said, it’s very cheap.
I don’t have the details to hand, but usually when poorer nations have bad infrastructure, it’s mainly down to structural adjustment policies stopping them from investing in their own people’s welfare to keep them more desparate and easier to exploit as cheap labour.
Anti-car people in general are going to want to end poverty in general, which means the squalid conditions of a lot of these places would change. It’s not a matter of changing one thing and leaving literally every other variable untouched. Anti-car advocacy is part of a wider a holistic change in society.
Like I’ve spent time in Ho Chi Minh City, and yeah, the place is a sea of motorbikes. It’s a health & aafety disaster. But it’s a flat city. There’s nothing to say bicycles couldn’t be used there.
Tbh I have no idea what you’re talking about so have a nice day I guess
Cool story, you’ve got loads to say but no ability to listen. Thanks for wasting my time.
It’s not like poor Chinese, Vietnamese or Indian people would ever use bicycles. The very idea, how ludicrous. Haha.
They use motorbikes 🤦♂️
Colonial extortion built the cycle infrastructure…
Oh, goodie. Lemmy always delivers, lmao.
Wat?
I’d guess they’re stating that the semi-developed countries with high density populations and high rates pollution may not consider cycling infrastructure on their list of city planning priorities
India’s cities are jammed up with car traffic. It’s one of the major sources of pollution. That’s what this professor is addressing. Africa is a whole, huge continent. containing many countries with greatly varying levels of economic development. The poorer ones don’t even have much of an infrastructure base. And lots of people there do ride bicycles. All that considered, my question stands.
Yes but cycling is not a valid option either. Public transportation and motorbikes is clearly the answer and all of these countries are moving towards them.
The article is giving “white man knows better”
Do indian and african not ride a bike?
Its not the optimal choice. Motorbikes for one are much more viable because the winters are easy and the terrain can be too difficult for muscle powered bicycles. Also Motorbikes can carry a lot compared to a bike. The rest is filled in by public transportation - busses, trains, rickshaw, converted pick up trucks.
I’ve been living in Asia for almost 20 years now and bicycle is not it trust me. It’s only viable for rich small diatance well developed countries and anyone who says otherwise really needs to get out more.
Its not the optimal choice.
It’s totally not for long distance, no one is claiming that.
Motorbikes for one are much more viable because the winters are easy and the terrain can be too difficult for muscle powered bicycles.
You speak like as if in winter country people doesn’t bike? Also bicycle maintenance is way cheaper though.
Also Motorbikes can carry a lot compared to a bike.
most of the time people doesn’t carry much anyway. Kinda like bicycle ehh.
The rest is filled in by public transportation - busses, trains, rickshaw, converted pick up trucks.
Bicycle is pretty good for last mile transport too, it’s free to boot.
I’ve been living in Asia for almost 20 years now
It’s not really a flex as you think it is, maybe you should listen to me because i’m here 35 years.
bicycle is not it trust me.
Because there never a good infrastructure for it? And people tend to ride motorcycle/car because it’s easy and they live far, and they live far because they have motorcycle/car. See the issue? Let’s not mention those who drive 500m just to buy something.
What about kids? In my time, kids bike to school, it gave us the sense of freedom and independence. They still do these day but less of them do now, you wanna know why? Cars, because there’s so much car on the road nowadays and 0 bicycle infrastructure for them to do it safely, and no one have the brain to build it 20 years ago, so now there’s even less people cycling there’s no reason for those elected to believe it’s helpful.
I’ve seen bus companies gone bankrupt because ridership is shrinking once economy is turning better for people, i’ve seen neighbourhood torn apart as highway cut through in the middle where you need to cycle/walk extra kilometers to get to the other side or play frogger. Are you really, truly sure bicycle is not it or is it because no one decided to develop the infrastructure for it to be safe to do so?
It’s only viable for rich small diatance well developed countries
China were once ruled by bicycle before and they’re not rich at the time. Once their economy advanced, they all turn to car. Guess where they’re slowly going now. Also are you saying everything is a sprawl in Asia? I don’t get your point, it seems like you’re insulting Asia just to proof your point, as if we doesn’t have a city/town with stuff in walkable/bikeable distance, which, in my life living here, isn’t the case.
anyone who says otherwise really needs to get out more.
Idk seems like you need to touch grass more.
U sound angry lol
Oof, where’s that “i liVE iN aSIa fOr AlmOSt 20 yEArS” confidence goes? It’s as empty as i guessed.
Ok dude have a good day!
K
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Bicycle commuting reduced all-cause mortality by almost 50%. All-cause. That’s with the risk of getting murdered by a driver priced into the figure.
Source? Notably bike enthusiasts are self selected from those willing and able to do what they do. It is notably not useful to say that a 20 year old commuting 10 miles a day is more healthy than grandma in her walker.
https://bmjpublichealth.bmj.com/content/2/1/e001295
I encourage you to save methodological speculation until you’ve actually read the study
Yep, meanwhile my country built bike highways. I’m at work after 35 minutes of cycling. (15 km)
I live outside of a city, so I can choose between multiple cities where I wish to work. It’s pretty convenient.
I simply don’t feel like accepting a job offer that has a bad commute.
The biking is a huge stress reliever, I come fresh at work and freshly home.
Seems it works out great for you but I don’t think it is a great solution for Americans who on average live far further from their work in inhospitable climates and are less healthy.
Often times being pushed so far from their work because their city downtown is 60% parking lots and it illegal to build any new buildinga unless they are luxury condos or mcmansions.
If the city still had decent density, they could easily live closer to work.
Great but we have to deal with the world as it is whilst improving it when we can. This means that we should build denser more walkable spaces going forward whilst realizing that we need trains and busses and electric cars not instead of better options but instead of gas cars.
Precisely. Claiming that biking is more dangerous than driving because car-supremacist land use patterns force cyclists out into suburban sprawl is essentially disingenuous victim-blaming.
Claiming that biking is MUCH more dangerous than driving is just reality. It’s a function of dividing deaths by miles traveled. Individuals live in the real world as it is now and must make decisions based on actual reality not what you imagine might be fare in a more reasonable world than we live in whilst making positive change for the future.
You aren’t a victim and nobody is blaming you by understanding actual reality.
@grue @FireRetardant
I live in the suburbs of Tokyo now but I grew up in Michigan in the middle of nowhere. 7 miles to a town with a traffic light and 3 miles to a town with a post office smaller than a convenience store. The town with a post office had passenger rail service 100 years ago. My grandpa told me about it. Guess what happened? The automobile manufacturers bought the line and shut it down. I rode my bike to both towns all the time and in all weather. #FuckCars
What is such a inhospitable climate? They should aim to be healthy
I suppose you felt like sharing this information because it confirmed whatever weird biases you have but you’re obviously wrong but you still haven’t deleted your comment so I think you are a republican
I think if you think that saying that US needs more remote work, affordable housing near where we work, and investment in transit makes one a Republican you must not be very familiar with Republicans. I think you should probably rethink your entire perspective on life.
…yet city in the US been looking at this and found out biking is not as dangerous as people think, and facilities being build for cyclist is increasing.
https://www.axios.com/local/seattle/2025/03/19/traffic-safety-2024-pedestrian-cyclist-deaths
It is exactly as dangerous as people think as you can clearly look at the miles biked and driven and see that the deaths per mile are massively higher. What you are posting is that its possible for it to be less dangerous than before mediation not that it is sanely possible to make mixed use as safe as cars.
as you can clearly look at the miles biked and driven and see that the deaths per mile are massively higher.
Two thing:
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so does walking. Pedestrian death is significantly higher than bicycle death in US. Does that mean you should stop walking? :D
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cyclist doesn’t ride 200miles to visit their grandma, and more often than not the trip tend to be short per day. Car driver tend to live further from everywhere(look at suburb), that mean in a single day they travel more, so of course car could rake up more non-incident mile than pedestrian and bicycle. Even in Netherlands, the cycling haven, in 2023 the death per billion km is 15.6, despite having 270 cyclist death in the whole country, and despite cycling being a part of their life there.
It looks damning if you only know how to take the statistic on face value, but in reality? It’s not. And let’s not talk about where the danger come from.
What you are posting is that its possible for it to be less dangerous than before mediation
DUH, you’re the one that saying bicycle is a laughable solution, yet city has been trying that way, so let’s not shift the goal.
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Yeah biking is extremely deadly where I live. You really don’t see bikes at all. Sometimes they’re left on the roadside where someone died on one. You can’t walk, either.
The government should ban cars to make cycling safer
On the narrow roads where I live in the UK I also doubt the number of cars having to slow down and then accelerate to overtake is saving energy. I’d love to see a study that looked at the rural roads in the UK because I’m sure it’s less efficiebt and more polluting.
Obviously this changes if there are dedicated cycle paths, but they are a rare thing or here in the sticks. Also there idiots on road bikes who refuse to use cycle lanes when provided. I think the highway code needs updating to stop this.
I’d also ban racing bikes from the road, if you can’t cycle over a drain or a pothole then your bike isn’t built for UK roads.
I’m sure I’m going to get down voted to hell and back for this post.
Note sure why this would be downvoted
I’m not surprised. It shouldn’t be controversial. We have similar rules for cars in relation to the tyres to ensure minimum data braking distances in various weather conditions. It’s common sense that you shouldn’t have to swerve into traffic to avoid getting a puncture. It’s something the should be discussed in a civil way
The efficiency part is just logic when every 4-5 seconds during rush hour a car is overtaking you. That has to be more poluting than just having another car on the road.
I’m a cyclist, I’ve only ever owned mountain bikes as racing bikes are too dangerous and slide too easily in the wet. I used to cycle 10 miles to work every day and I hated how cars would accelerate past me and I always questioned how much pollution must be created when they do. I didn’t have a car and had no other option at the time and I’m surprised that I’ve never seen this considered.
My opinion changes massively when there are dedicated cycle paths.
