New court documents reveal that Russia is keeping a very, very long list of influencers to spread its propaganda.
The Russian disinformation plot revealed in a Justice Department indictment this week may just be the tip of the iceberg, according to newly unsealed court documents.
On Wednesday, the DOJ announced it would seize 32 internet domains linked to a larger Kremlin scheme to promote disinformation and influence the 2024 election. The Russian campaign, known as Doppelganger, uses AI-generated content to create “fake news” boosted through social media with the aim of electing Donald Trump.
…
Of particular note, the documents released Wednesday included an affidavit that noted a Russian company is keeping a list of more than 2,800 influencers world wide, about one-fifth of whom are based in the United States, to monitor and potentially groom to spread Russian propaganda. The affidavit does not mention the full list of influencers, but is still a terrifying indicator of how deep the Russian plot to interfere in U.S. politics really goes.
Guaranteed they are all over the Fediverse and probably hosting their own instances.
There are a few obvious ones around but it’s against the rules to even suggest that they could be shills or bots. Hopefully this news will get the mods to start taking action against the most blatant ones.
I, for one, will not return to allowing that particular guy back on my feed.
That guy gets on my nerves, but I’ve read enough from him on various topics that I’m pretty confident he’s a genuine user. Don’t get me wrong, he’s for sure an ideologue who’s no fun at parties, but I don’t think he’s a bot or that he’s saying things he was instructed to say and doesn’t actually care deeply about.
There’s another user, with a three-word-phrase username, that I would describe similarly.
will get the mods to start taking action against the most blatant ones.
I’ve heard it from a reliable source, a Lemmy.ml mod, that there’s simply no Russian activity on Lemmy. Would you like to know who?
Yes but… Fediverse has more moderators and even server level bans where we can fight back.
It’s a different political makeup here on the Fediverse. It’s not like the Russians can hand money to just one or two CEOs and suddenly all of the moderators we trust here turn to the other side.
We need to keep our wits about us here. We came to Lemmy (and Fediverse) because centralized commercial control of our discussion spaces led to perverse incentives.
I only consider this political situation to be yet another test of the Fediverse. We have to survive it. But I also believe we moved to the Fediverse because we all believe we can do more about disinformation or malicious actors here on the Fediverse than on… Reddit or Facebook.
What happens when your mods are part of it?
Move to a different instance.
Not just that. If it’s just the mods of one community, appeal to the instance admins. If the admins are part of the problem, don’t just move to a different instance yourself, also try to raise awareness and convince the rest of Lemmy to defederate.
Or shit, make your own instance and have your own mods lol.
I’ll bet there are some mods in on it too.
Do you think it’s big enough to bother with?
For instance admins, definitely? For the government or other organizations… lol, no. Lemmy is such a very small pie segment of social media… and that’s part of why I love it.
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. Sure, people will spin up their own instance and run it according to their own biases, but I don’t see Russia or Israel or whomever running bots specifically to push things one way or another like they do with Twitter, Facebook or Reddit.
cousneezefartcough .ml cough
Sorry, did that sound like words?
Everyone that doesn’t agree with me politically basically
I’ve seen a lot of seriously obvious and unapologetic shilling for very out there positions around here. The further telltale sign is that when one popular poster starts getting regularly rebuffed and shutdown, backup arrives not long after to pollute a thread with their bullshit.
It’s a slippery slope to start assuming people are bots or paid shills. Whos to say everyone that agreed with you at first weren’t bots and then regular people came in and commented their own opinion that went against the first wave of bots?
Not everyone that thinks capitalism is broken is a paid Russian agent. I’m assuming that is what you are referring too. Some are very extreme in their views but the most likely explanation is that they are a combination of stupid and mad.
Not the green party or communist not jobs necessarily, but the Pro-Putin, “Ukraine is Nazis”, warmongering types…yup.
I’d argue they are still most likely just idiots that got wrapped up in foreign propaganda, and not necessarily paid to post on lemmy of all places.
I just think calling people bots and shills has no place in honest discourse and the brushstroke always tends to get bigger and bigger.
I just think calling people bots and shills has no place in honest discourse and the brushstroke always tends to get bigger and bigger.
Bots and shills have no place in honest discourse, but they obviously exist. Should we pretend they don’t—assume everyone is arguing in good faith, regardless of how blatantly dishonest and inconsistent they are? What would you suggest?
I don’t disagree that there’s a slippery slope problem; there’s no shortage of fringe internet echo chambers that dismiss all dissenting opinions as coming from npc’s, cia shills, shitlibs, bloodmouths, breeders, <insert dehumanizing label>, etc.
Should we pretend they don’t—assume everyone is arguing in good faith
It’s a though problem but essentially yes. We should only ban because of content, so anything pro-putin would get the hammer but that comes with it’s own problems. It’s hard to draw the line. Is being pro-isreal an acceptable stance (not morally, thats obvious, but ban wise)? What about being pro-gasoline cars? I’ve been tempted many times to assume people bashing EVs are oil industry shills but it’s really just people that fell for their propaganda and not someone that is actively participating in it. For the most part, downvotes do their job but everyone knows those can easily be manipulated as well.
If the news was about pro-AI bots floating around, I would probably be accused of being one because I’m very outspoken about it when it’s a dissenting opinion on lemmy.
I just don’t think it’s a good standard to keep. I don’t have a solution but I think trying to call out people on it will just end up in people calling each other that when ever an argument goes badly. In the end, I view it as a form of rhetoric.
You didn’t read the article
Where in the article does it mention lemmy? As far as I am concerned, we do not have any influencers and we definitely won’t be on the list.
I’m just saying assuming people are bots is a bad habit. Why not just assume I’m a paid shills and disregard my points? See how easy it is and why it shouldn’t be encouraged?
Not everyone that thinks capitalism is broken is a paid Russian agent. I’m assuming that is what you are referring too.
Pretty sure they’re making veiled shill accusations at anyone who isn’t 100% on board with arming Netanyahu until his genocide is complete.
The affidavit does not mention the full list of influencers, but is still a terrifying indicator of how deep the Russian plot to interfere in U.S. politics really goes.
Well, why not? Name and shame all of them. Normal political ads are required to tell you who paid for them (even if they only do it in the fine print). There’s no reason not to hold these schmucks to the same standard just because it’s TikTok vids or whatever instead of magazine or TV ads.
Not a lawoligist, but I suspect they plan on pressing charges ;-)
Wont be in time for the election though, so the damage will be done
I feel like they already got their money’s worth on interfering with elections.
They nabbed up several former Soviet republics and then publicly humiliated the states with the 2016 American election.
Say what you want about Putin, be he’s a helluva spy.
Say what you want about Putin, be he’s a helluva spy.
He’s so good that when he got intel that Kiev would fall in 3 days, he didn’t bother to check the validity of that info and instead went on confidently to…not take Kiev at all.
So: I’ll say what I want about Putin. He’s a monster, a liar, a thief, an unimaginative, uncreative leader, a terrible commander, and a shit spy. Putin lucked out on a saving roll. Period. Don’t elevate him any higher than the mud he walks on.
Every single conservative comment I have seen about this has claimed it is made up by the DOJ. That is the extent of it.
Law and order party says the doj is corrupt next time on sick sad world
To them DOJ < PUTIN
So don’t expect anything different from those idiots.
Better a Russian than Democrat Or Justice!
“DOJ is corrupt but also police can do no wrong, let’s give them tanks, until they are forced to be against our riots and then they are bad again, but only until we start saying that the riots weren’t us and was the deep state actors, then they never did anything wrong”
You know when you’re looking for a recipe and you get those long blog posts about “As a young lad, growing up on the farm, we’d often gather bargle nuts for the seasonal…” before finally getting you the info?
Well your post is like finding the recipe only. That’s it. That’s their formula.
This is how you bake fascist biscuits, no preamble.
You will only ever get the blog post version when actually talking to a conservative however.
Where are my republican “there is no Russian influence in the election” now?
I don’t listen to the radio but my coworkers (school bus drivers) do so I overhear it from time to time. News reports keep mentioning “foreign interference in our elections” but scrupulously avoid mentioning a) it’s Russia, and b) it’s Russia interfering on behalf of Trump and the Republicans. Even fucking NPR is like this, most of the time. It should be obvious that any Republicans hearing this sort of “news” will believe it’s a problem afflicting Democrats.
They will never hear about this in a non-obfuscated way
Remember: If your politicians say there is no Russian interference in your elections, they are the ones who have been funded.
Is anyone really surprised by this? Russia hasn’t changed much in this particular way since before WWII ;).
Not really, but it’s nice to see the receipts. The indictments are pretty damning
Yes, yes it is 👍
And centrists will imagine that all of it is localized entirely on lemmy, in the form of anyone to their left.
terrifying scale
barely a percentage point compared to the fossil fuel industry’s war on Green Energy
I suppose you could reasonably argue that Rex Tillerson and Vladimir Putin were already joined at the hip. But the US advertising and influencing industry is vast - $515B annually and growing. The Russians aren’t even in the top ten of foreign influence peddlers. FFS, the Saudis bought golf.
Saudis aren’t trying to get Trump elected and directly meddle in the election.
And sure, the Saudis whitewash themselves and try to make us forget about Jamal. But Russia influence is really bad.
I’m not necessarily against foreign influence. Ukrainians have a right to make their case to us for example. But the Russian style disinfo is leading to conspiracy theories and a degeneration of our society.
Lol yes they are. They’re part owners of Twitter, which became a pro-Trump cesspool. That alone is orders of magnitude bigger than this Russian thing.
Saudis aren’t trying to get Trump elected
The Israelis are, though.
But Russia influence is really bad.
US business interests have more influence over Russian foreign policy than Russians have on the US.
Russia is quite sanctioned, and the remaining US Business interest in Russia was looted / stolen by the Russians.
The business connection between USA and Russia is basically gone. Most (IE Elon Musk) are now making huge moves towards China now.
What remains are RT and other Russian disinfo groups
The business connection between USA and Russia is basically gone.
Clearly not, or Russians wouldn’t be able to slide cash into the pockets of social media influencers so easily.
Clearly not, or Russians wouldn’t be able to slide cash into the pockets of social media influencers so easily.
They didn’t. They got caught by the FBI and now we have massive news articles proving Russian influence. They literally just got caught, despite their best efforts at hiding.
Now comes the hard work at figuring out which of these 2800 influencers are fucking traitors… and which ones were just caught up in the mess. But someone in there had to have known that Russian money was part of this scheme.
They got caught by the FBI
After paying off the podcasters
Yes. That is how crimes work. The crime happens and then the FBI looks at you afterwards.
Are you… American? This crap is taught at grade school level.
Yes, what about this thing that has nothing to do with the subject of Russia influencing elections?
What’s terrifying about buying off a couple of podcasters? The scale is dwarfed by any number of other countries.
Let’s play a little game of question and answer. For science. I bet you answer one. Do you think it was only a couple podcasters? What other countries do you think are worse with the misinformation than Russia? Where’s your proof for such a claim? Your feelings?
AIPAC has entered the chat, and has money to spend.
Yes, what is terrifying about Russia paying podcasters to spread pro-Russian propaganda, and social media posters trying to deflect from that story?
Wah but whatabout
barely a percentage point compared to the fossil fuel industry’s war on Green Energy
That’s not really relevant in this context, though, is it? Maybe a better comparison would be 2024 election spending by foreign-connected PACS. According to opensecrets.org, the “nearly $10 million” allegedly distributed by RT employees is equivalent to the sum of all other foreign pac money donated to the GOP this cycle. It’s certainly not “dwarfed by any other country” as you spuriously claimed.
Saudi sportswashing and other shenanigans are also cause for concern. That in no way lessens the severity of this problem.
That’s not really relevant
It’s illustrative of a system of “influencing” that Americans drown in daily. Russian propaganda peddlers are peeing into the sewer.
The panic is over the “Russian”-ness of this media. But the machine that manufacturers consent is merely on loan.
Well Russia is part of that fossil fuel industry too, and they also hire lobbyists to push fossil fuels
It’s a big club and you ain’t in it
Russia might not spend as much money on propaganda as some other entities, but they punch above their weight in terms of tactics and effectiveness.
I’d like to see that list.
Alongside the list of influencers US is paying to spread its propaganda.
Laughs in AIPAC
AIPAC is based in the US and there is no evidence of foreign funds. I know it’s shocking to hear, but there is a large Jewish population in the US that happens to endorse Israel.
The entities in this indictment went out of their way to circumvent FARA
AIPAC is based in the US and there is no evidence of foreign funds
Thank you so much for mentioning this, I’ve seen wayyyyy too many people say that AIPAC is foreign interference with no backing.
It’s been a really common talking point on right on the alt right for a while. To this day, no evidence has been substantiated to support this claim.
New Republic - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for New Republic:
MBFC: Left - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: High - United States of America
Wikipedia about this sourceWired Magazine - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for Wired Magazine:
MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: High - United States of America
Wikipedia about this sourceSomebody should take a long look at 🦚CNBC as well
What are you implying here, I don’t get it.
Why now, FBI?
I don’t know how we are supposed to just think “oh what a co-inky-dink”. Maybe I’m missing some timeline stuff here but I keep seeing DOJ action based on unsealed FBI stuff. Great, but when was it sealed? They probably have sealed documents that say the sky is blue too.
Edit: ok then. It’s just asking why we see action now when we’ve all know it for a long time. Carry on.
Probably because the Russians kicked up their campaign this year as the battle of Donesk went poorly for them.
Russia realizes that the #1 factor in their war for the Ukrainian East depends on getting Trump elected and the Republicans cutting aid.
The only reason Russia got Adviika was because Republicans cut aid between Nov 2023 and all of winter 2024. Shell hunger they called it, as the Ukrainians ran out of ammo and were forced to retreat from their fortress city.
Russia wants that to happen again. So they’re kicking up their influence campaigns.
☝️ Found one
Nice pitchfork.
if you’ve seen enough pitchforks to be an expert on them, i consider that to be a red flag
I’d just like to point out that Trump won’t be sentenced for his crimes committed to cheat in the 2016 election until after the 2024 election.
The justice system can move slowly, especially on career-defining cases.
Why now? Because it is happening now.
You expect them to wait until after the election or something?
Once an investigation culminates and it’s time to roll up the targets, this is what happens. They have whole procedures for this, written down in books… You know the law.
Carry on.
SundialBill vibes.
